I offered the FA, the managers, the players, lack of desire, new arrivals eligible to play for england, yet you ignore them but reply to others who were critical of your posts. I get the impession you were looking for a cyber fight rather than a debate, but hay oh new day move on.
Yes indeed the Germans consider not making the Final a disappointment At least this one we couldn't blame the Ref
When the Germans first won the World Cup in 1954 it quite literally lifted the nation out of its post war trauma and feelings of guilt. Since that time the German national squad has been a central element in the country's rehabilitation on the World scene. In fact this predates the formation of the Bundesliga. In comparison the English football league was nearly 100 hundred years old before anyone took the World Cup seriously. Little wonder then that England has a tradition of 'club before country' - observable not only amongst players but also fans - in Germany by contrast the national squad has a central place in German sport inconcievable to us (and also maybe undesirable). Others here have mentioned Germany's population of 80 million as an advantage, what hasn't been mentioned is that their national squad has also become international - with players such as Ozul, Khadira, Boateng, Mario Gomes, Klose and Podolsky all coming from immigrant origins. All of Germany's immigration comes from other footballing nations which is a distinct advantage - at least compared to English football which profits little from commonwealth immigration. Football is also the national sport in Germany, as opposed to in England where all sport has been influenced by social class affiliation (compare the social origins of our footballers compared to our national rugby team if you doubt this).
I don't think our lack of football success is down to fact that the likes of Bill Beaumont, Lawrence Dallaglio etc opted to play rugby. Unless you think that people from more salubrious backgrounds make better footballers in this country unlike others where poverty is the spur to success at football.
Over last 10 years we've had huge success in cycling. Why? Because we invested money in the infrastructure, coaching and had someone in Dave Brailsford who knew exactly what he was wanted to do.
Most of that is what I was saying for 5 pages last night. Those things must make a difference, we can of course still do a lot more than we do now to improve the national team though. Fao Balkan - I responded to people having a go but ignored your posts as well as others because I didn't find anything wrong with them. I'm agreeing with you!
Another thing I'm interested in is between the 1970 World Cup we didn't qualify for another major tournament until Euro 80. That's four tournaments in a row. Division 1 had hardly any foreign players and it was tough times in the country. But we're currently blaming to easy life for kids and to many foreigners in the Premier League.
I didn't quite mean what you thought I meant here. I was implying that because football in England arose from an industrial working class background that the social upheavals of the last 30 years which have almost decimated that class have also had a negative effect upon football. The social class which produced nearly all of Britain's great names in football simply no longer exists in a coherant form - Germany has not gone through this same upheaval because they were spared Thatcherism. Why is success in international sport important for nations ? Some countries do without it - Switzerland are not World champions in anything but are apparently not worried by it. Throughout the World Cup we have seen how nations are so identified with this that the success (or otherwise) of 11 men kicking a ball around becomes a matter of national pride or shame. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if eg. the Brazilians spent more time crying about their disappearing rain forests, corrupt politicians etc. than crying over football. The same applies to many nations where this once great sport has become transformed into a source of distraction in some countries or a catalyst for nationalism in others. One of the great things about Britain is that we are a little distanced from both camps. We enjoy success if it comes but are national soul is not destroyed if it doesn't.
There was a German geezer on radio 2 last night on about the German way All the clubs 51% owned by the fans Bayern 70% which surprised seeing how they dominate I knew it was cheap to get in but £7.50 !!! to get in and stand at Bayern and Dortmund Also all the clubs got together for certain agreements and one of the big ones was they must keep safe standing for fans Could you imagine our clubs agreeing to sit down and come to a universal agreement. The size of Man Utds latest deals would probably make it of little interest fir them to even contemplate this.
The worst example of blaming something on Thatcher I have ever heard. As for social class, Hull FC were formed by a bunch of public schoolboys. Now that rugby union players get paid the old class thing doesn't apply, at least as far as the players go. In fact go down south where RL is virtually unknown and union is watched by every class. Leicester's crowds which are far higher than ny RL club aren't all upper class toffs. After the war we advised the Germans on a school system and a union set up. Back home the unions had none of it. So maybe we should blame the unions. Or opening hours as whilst we were closed at 10.30 pm and during nthe afternoon the Germans were open all day and cloed at 4am. Or maybe the real reasons, lack of coaches, especially at junior level here compared to Germany, lack of the can't have winners and losers mentality we have in our schools, far more facilities especially floodlit and all weather pitches, cooperation between the FA and the top league...
I grew up in leicestershire, in a predominantly middle class rural area where rugby is by far the dominant sport. I'd never really noticed it growing up but looking back now it's clear as muck that all the middle class lot are for the most part massive rugby fans, albeit some still have some interest in football, where as the working class are for the most part football fans. There's the odd working class rugby fan and, well a lot more of the middle class like football than the working class like rugby. At least up until around 10 years ago whilst I was still at school the classes were mainly divided when it came to rugby in my area. Might have changed in the last decade or so and obviously I can't speak for the whole fan base as they come from all over.
Bayern are a very wealthy club though. They have 240,000 people paying 60euros a year to be in a scheme where they go in a draw for tickets. Which is important when Bayern restrict season passes to less than 30,000 so that a wide range of people get to see games instead of the dame old few. Get away from the relatively few cheap standing tickets and the prices in Germany aren't so cheap going up to over 70 euros at top clubs. We. here I mean City, will never be able to match the cheap safe standing as you need a large capacity to make it work. Man U, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Newcastle, Man City and Liverpool or clubs like Wednesday and Leeds with large arras, mainly because most have old Kop Ends, could benefit. But I can't see the PL voting for it. They are after compliant, easy to manage audience sitying respectfully like at a theatre whilst paying a lot of money for the privilege. Needless to say other things which make the German matchday experience such as tickets including local travel, beer served on the terraces, large flags and banners encouraged, would not be considered. To the relief of some on here ho seem to be against any vibrancy in stadiums.
The captain of my local rugby union team works in a factory on a minimum wage job. Go to Devon and Cornwall and union is the most popular sport in a lot of areas and therefore the choice of all classes. There is a divide in places where there is a football club but it is less than it used to be. My local RU club runs junior teams with 250 or so training which isn't bad in a town of less than 40,000 with a very healthy junior football set up. I go in their club for a pint now and again and it is nearly all working class types. Their was an attempt to set up a RL team, coached by a union player who had become disillusioned with the way the the game had gone, but it flopped and any players and juniors who are interested have to travel to Hull now.
The area where I grew up, was like a community of lots of little villages/hamlets centred around a larger village where I lived (it's actually classed as a town but it's a village by all means). They have an excellent and very successful rugby club with full teams going all the way from lower primary school ages through each school year group up to the seniors. They have excellent facilities, lots of level rugby pitches in good condition etc. Compared to the football set up in the area. There's no designated local football pitch, any teams had to use the school 'pitch' which really cannot be classed as a pitch by any standards, the ground is full of potholes and so uneven it would be better described as a motocross track, indeed we used to use the grass mounds as jumps for our push bikes. The rusty goal posts are still the same ones from when I was at school, the crossbars are completely sagged from generations of kids swinging on them, they don't have any fixings for nets to be put on them, and the lines are painted once a year at the beginning of every school year. When I was growing up, there was no senior team, the whole area only had two football teams, one for my school year and one for the school year above. Just to put the icing on the cake, the school fields are surrounded by 8 foot fences and are off limits to anyone without express permission. If we ever tried to go on there for a kick about we'd be chased off by security within half hour, we weren't allowed on there at all., and the situation is still the same now. I don't know the population of the area the community serves but it's probably around 20k at a guess, that's a 20k community with no real access to local football facilities, I think it's safe to assume that area won't produce a. Single footballer for a good long time.
Yes but take the north stand for instance Safe standing would instantly in crease the capacity in there to 7,000+ meaning the same return of income by charging £20 across the board for each game. It's swings and roundabouts but atmosphere would get better I take your point about some people would love it if a game was silent even a guy I go in pub with dislikes any rocous goings on around him. But he's over 60 and just wants to watch the game.
They're surrounded by an 8 foot fence because we know for a fact that if these where left open for the free use that goals nets would be vandalised in no time at all. When you drive through Holland you see pitches all over with goals and nets intact. The mentality here for a few is see some thing nice wreck it.
You should have read a little more carefully, the goal posts don't even take nets! We (our local club) had to take our own and tie them round, and fix them in the floor with tent pegs. A hard enough shot would pull the bloody things out or if you score in the right (or wrong) place just inside the post or low on the floor, the ball would stretch a bloody gap and go right through!
Yeh nets where a bit expensive years ago so replacing them wasn't an option was it. Mind you all these new 5G pitches in the Hull schools are free to use for training to all U16s football teams. Also for matches if your lucky so it's not an excuse for all Local teams do quite well when it comes to national tournaments has well so maybe these facilities do help a bit
