That's right, RI: F1 does not go there so it is utterly irrelevant to mention it here in an F1 forum isn't it? This is yet another reason that your earlier post was entirely missing the point. This sport is F1, not cricket nor football. And any political argument which is of sole concern to F1, is obviously F1's concern and not cricket's or football's! If you want to make general statements about sport's involvement in politics, rather than specific ones which concern one particular sport, this forum is the wrong place to be making your point, however obscure it may be. I would suggest that if you are in the UK, you take this matter up with your local M.P., who should be able to take account of your opinion and forward it to the relevant spokesperson at Westminster, to add it to whatever body of evidence may have been previously gathered, or to raise it as an entirely novel point if none similar has already been raised. Good luck.
This is a sports forum which has sections dedicated to various individual sports. Why does the political situation in Bahrain merit special attention because F1 holds a race there? China also hosts a F1 race. If you can not understand my posts regarding the attitude towards women of some individual and the lack of understanding of the fact that other sporting events are held in countries with dubious reputations then sign the petition. You and the other petition signers will still be buying the goods originating from the countries that you personally disapprove of.
I'll try to make this simple, RI. To make it easier, let's put aside all the previous reasoning I've presented. Unlike Bahrain, no other F1 venue threatens the very existence of its own personnel (although Sao Paolo is not as safe as Silverstone). And yes, this includes China. For this reason alone, and not detracting from the previous reasoning offered, Bahrain is an entirely unique case. And since its reinstatement on the calendar a few hours ago, it very much warrants discussion in an F1 forum right now.
I believe the concern, and do correct me if I'm wrong, is that Bahrain is potentially trying to use a very high profile event to show to the rest of the world that all its problems have been solved, when they, in all likelihood, have not. F1 is being made into a political pawn, which the government of Bahrain can use to try and suggest their political unrest is over. Yes, other countries, like China, don't have the best human rights records on the planet, but the race was not being used to try and restore public faith in China from abroad. I agree that the humans right record in China needs addressing, but currently F1 is not involved, so it does not get discussed here. The focus of the discussion is not how bad the situation in Bahrain is, but whether it is fair to use a sporting event for political ends. This makes it relevant to the forum.
I said if they were good enough OK, if you bother to read it that is, what i said I was against is them getting into F1 just because they are a woman, that is a completely different thing. People that think women should be in F1 are, quite frankly, sexist. Lowering the bar so a section of the population that wouldn't normally get in due to their lacking in the skillset required IS NOT EQUALITY.
Some people on this thread seem to be convinced that F1 is the only sport that has an international impact. Football is watched by more people in more countries than any other sport. The author of this thread has made clear his dismissive views of the abilities of females and then implores us to sign some obscure petition addressed to no one. Who exactly is going to act on this outcry from the anonymous masses? So a motorsport event is bad in some country but OK in another. But all other sports, including cricket, is free from criticism because the heading on this page says F1? The people that sign that petition are just hypocrites that have not bothered to think through the political situations that exist throughout the world.
This is new ground for me as I agree with the points made by both sides on this thread. Miggins has hit the nail on the head though, we all like to think that 'our' team will/would do the right thing, but unfortunately, nothing speaks louder than money! Shame all round really.
hello this in an F1 FORUM, not a football forum, or a cricket forum or any other sport forum, it's F1, as it says at the top in the diectory Forum-motor sport-F1. as to my "dismissive views of the abilities of females" as far as sport goes Science and history are on my side ALL THE WAY, just because you've decided to ignore all of history and science so you can try and prove how 'pc' you are really only shows you as a fool, despite al your attempts to prove how superior you are you've managed to prove the exact opposite.
I don't believe any of us are saying that other sports don't have international influence, and certainly not saying other sports are free from criticism, but yes, this is an F1 board, so that is what is discussed here, with other F1 fans. Sure, I'm a football fan, but this isn't the right forum for that discussion. Discussion on topics such as whether Qatar is the right place to hold a world cup based on their human rights issues is irrelevant to this forum.
Well that rules out science and history. Except when it suits the chosen argument. So nasty Bahrain can't have a F1 race because erm why?
Ok, let me try and explain this differently. Anything can be discussed on the F1 board, so long as it is relevant to F1, or an argument being made about F1. If the discussion is on aerodynamics, the science behind it is of course relevant, and comparisons can be made to previous aerodynamics devices, such as ground effect, bringing in an element of history. Equally the politics leading to a change in ruling, for example whether the precedents set of banning dangerous devices in the past, should be followed, is all relevant to the discussion, so can be freely debated on an F1 forum. The human rights situation, etc, of any country in the world does not directly relate to F1, but in this case, a Grand Prix could potentially be used to paper over the cracks in a country, giving the impression the problems are solved. The argument therefore is whether F1 should remain completely independent of politics, and go where the money is, or be aware of the connotations the Grand Prix could have, and act accordingly in a way that benefits the most people? (Or indeed whether F1 should only look after its own interests) Other sports, such as football, cricket, etc, are beyond the discussion as it currently is, because they do not impact on, or involve F1. But, if you want to make an argument based upon a precedent another sport has set, then by all means do so. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any examples of sports refusing to go to certain countries based on political unrest, but I'm probably missing something obvious. If you'd like to make an argument along these lines, suggesting F1 should follow suit, then go for it! Its relevant to F1 and the conversation.
F1 politics are fine. They are relevant to F1. They are also relevant to the subject of this thread. Discussing other aspects of F1 which are not relevant to this thread - which includes other topics debated within this forum - should be wholly restricted to the relevant thread and not cited as ammunition to back up attempts at spurious arguments here. If there is a desire to continue debate about other aspects of F1; for example female drivers; please use the appropriate debate in order that this one can remain focussed on its headline topic. This thread is a discussion of Bahrain's return to the 2011 F1 calendar and any relevant reaction to it.
So OK it seems the area of dissatisfaction amongst the F1 community is that some people consider that Bahrain is simply using the F1 circus as a way to express to the naive outside world that everything in the garden is rosy. And they are willing to pay lots of money to achieve that aim. Well I think that all us free thinking totally on topic F1 fans (not history, political, feminist, politically correct or science) people should immediately flood the petition website with our overwhelming well thought out arguments against Bahrain GP and succeed in overthrowing the current regime and replace it with one that is even worse. That has happened elsewhere but we are not allowed to consider it because this is F1.
RI, this is relevant simply because a lot of people here and elsewhere feel very strongly about it; the petition is being signed almost every second by people from all around the World, according to the website. If you don't want to, that's your prerogative but why criticise others who do?
Before I start this one, I'm assuming we're all singing from the same songsheet guys? If not, just PM me to shut up... What we personally think about the human rights record is not what we are discussing here, its an F1 forum. Personally I feel that the human rights records of many countries is terrible, and that harsher sanctions should be imposed on countries with poor records, such as higher import taxes on products from those countries, etc, but this won't happen, because economically it does not favour the 'west'. My signing of the petition is not just my objection to F1 being used as a political pawn, it is also a protest against the government of Bahrain who believe they can just paper over the cracks, and not deal with the fundamental underlying issues. But, the non-F1 objections are irrelevant to an F1 discussion, and sp we are concentrating on the role F1 should play in all of this. If I wanted to talk about the human rights situation of Bahrain, I'd post a thread about it in the general chat section. (And probably get told where to stick it, but thats GC for you).
"This thread is a discussion of Bahrain's return to the 2011 F1 calendar and any relevant reaction to it." No it isn't. The thread invites people to petition against the holding of the GP in that country for political reason. If Bahrain GP is a legitimate F1 topic and it's political reasons for being protested then where do you conveniently draw the line to suit your own biased viewpoint. So Bahrain should not host a F1 race because the regime fails to meet certain criteria (ignoring their view of women because apparently they will never make it into F1 anyway). You come across a just a bunch a people with a very narrow understanding of international politicals. Another thread has opened the topic regarding discussion.
I can't help feeling that we are being rather cleverly led up- the garden path here. It is clear that this new contributor is reasonably intelligent and it is therefore entirely reasonable to expect him or her to have understood the reasoning behind the arguments presented, which centre upon a well-intentioned campaign for the F1 fraternity to say "no" to Bahrain at this current, relatively unstable time in that tiny country's politics, with its capital city only a few miles down the road. For him/her to continue to raise unrelated arguments appears to be deliberately de-focussing the thread. N.B. I think there is another generalised term for this type of behaviour within fora which I will refrain from using.
