The list of Liverpool born [I posted btw] was ONLY top ranking players. As I posted just above, if a full third of the academy are local and I'm guessing they usually are, and they don't make it but the young foreign lads do, how do you explain that?
I would argue that hardly anyone makes it out...but that's another issue entirely. Are you arguing my point or the opposite? I'm saying we do try to get local players, but they're just **** compared to foreigners. You tell me 1/3 of our academy are local, but don't make it any further - hence, we do look for local talent but they're not good enough and either never reach their potential or their potential isn't as high as talent sourced from elsewhere. I would argue that football coaching at <14 in England is dreadful compared to Europe and further afield and that's what impacts them later on...they peak sooner and lower level.
Yet your argument is totally flawed when you consider we dont bring through any local OR foreign talent. It's **** all to do with where they are from and EVERYTHING to do with how we develop them as a club. I agree about the coaching being poor 100% but that's the total farce of our Academy system. It produces less than we ever did but it's bollocks to say the young kids are less talented than they were 15 years ago. I see kids around Liverpool all the time who are as good AND as passionate as they ever have been. The problem is they get lost somewhere along the line and the Academy was supposed to improve things but never has. Maybe they get too big for their pink and yellow boots much earlier now, maybe it's that we have actually over complicated the whole thing and never needed to tinker with what wasn't actually broken. Football as they say is a simple game over complicated by idiots. As for why I brought up Carra and Gerrard I'd say that was obvious. They are the last two major success stories from our youth system. Both developed pre-academy. A simpler system that had fantastic coaches but none of the extra nonsense that today's kids are surrounded with. A system that also had a direct connection with the first team with the top players often helping the youth on a regular basis. I distinctly remember Carra bemoaning the loss of that connection years ago. He predicted what would happen without that connection and he was absolutely spot on. Our Academy has produced not one single talent fit to lace the boots of the old system.
I said, "I would argue that hardly anyone makes it out." You just repeated what I said and added that what I said was flawed. I know we don't bring through any talent (I just argue most the talent is foreign). Already said that. Part of that is due to Rodgers being inept. Part of that is due to reasons I mentioned in previous posts (FIFA culture, instant success, pressure for results, no time to let players grow in the first team). You started off attacking my points by saying that we had an obsession with foreign talent which hadn't gotten us anywhere. Now you're saying it doesn't matter where they come from but has everything to do with how we develop them. You now also seem to be saying that it is our Academy which is failing through numerous reasons.If that were the case, why are other big clubs in England struggling? The same is true for half the premiership clubs. Maybe everyone's Academies are failing and are farcical. We don't have an obsession with foreigners, it's a realisation that foreigners are better coached from a younger age and are, generally, better than ours later on in their careers because of it - something other English clubs seem to have picked up on as well hence our 'best' midfielder in the country being Michael ****ing Carrick whilst all the top clubs go to other leagues to find their next star. Quality is far worse than it used to be even 10 years ago. Your Carragher and Gerrard nod seemed to suggest that we'd found top drawer talent in the past so therefore it must be there now and we're just doing a **** job at finding/coaching/developing it. I already explained that point previously anyway, but I shall repeat; FIFA and football manager lifestyle. Instant success craved. No time to develop players any more and let them grow into a team - you buy the quality now and play them else face the wrath of fans. Gerrard got game time because he could be given it and had time to grow. Our current crop get limited chances because Rodgers (apart from being a **** manager) can ill afford them game time. Again, the same is true for most top clubs in England. My points are very simple and have been since my first post. English talent (not just Liverpool talent) is generally worse than abroad due to youth level coaching, the need for instant success meaning limited game time, globalised football meaning other countries have caught up and even eclipsed us, and more people around the world are playing meaning there's more opportunities to find better talent elsewhere. I would add your point about the ego/money greed in young players too which doesn't help and probably stunts their drive to develop further too. We have talent in our youth team and Academy. Most of that is foreign talent because, in my opinion, that's where most of the talent lies these days. Some are British, very few are Scousers. I'm not saying those local players can't make it and be the next Gerrard or Carragher, just that the odds of finding a local lad better than what we can find abroad these days is pretty slim - baring the one in a million, once in a generation player who'll come through regardless. Move with the times. The glory days of local lads leading the teams are fading because the game is much more global. We just got extremely lucky to have had Gerrard and Jamie together and recently. I'm being overly defensive, but I guess when you respond to a poster who's first reply to you involved the hashtag #totalbullshit, you tend to get that way.
We're not obsessed with geographical birth. We're obsessed with getting the best talent whether they're English or foreign. If they're good enough then they'll make, if not they'll be moved on. Stop over complicating it FFS We don't get many foreign youngsters progressing from the academy either btw. Our academy is not producing.
Coincidence that since the youths were moved out of Melwood to the academy in Kirkby our youth system has suffered? The likes of Gerrard and Carragher and others benefitted from training in the same environment as the senior squad.
I don't think Carragher & Gerrard are good examples of a system being successful though. I look at the quality of the later Steve Heighway teams and they were filled with players like Lindfield, Eccleston, Darby, Welsh, Irwin etc who clearly weren't good enough from the outset. Spearing was the only player we could actually play or make ££ on from about 2005 onwards, the rest of it were pretty much wasted time and effort. The academy hadn't been succesful since Gerrard came through in the 90s. Since the overhaul we've had a steady stream of players coming through like Coady, Robinson, Flanagan, Ince, Kacanlikic, Kelly, Wisdom, Suso, Ibe, Ojo etc. who even if they don't make it we could've (still could on some) made money from them if we played our cards right and it would fund the buying of more players. When I look at academies I think they should be a conveyor belt of good players, not one world class player every 10 years, because they are more often than not anomalies. I think a successful academy is like Man Utd's one. They haven't produced any top class players since the class of 92 (I don't think so? might be missing an obvious one) but they'd made a load of good players and have managed to fund a lot of their purchases with these players and also use their youth players to supplement the squad and fill in the gaps for the marquee players to flourish.
Those are good players but good isn't good enough for Liverpool's first team! (obviously, Flanno is the once a decade world class talent )
Agreed, but my point is that you can work with them. If you can sell them on you can at least invest the money back into the squad or into the development of more talent. With most of the players from 2000 onwards under Heighway you couldn't.
In which case I apologise for the hashtag....it was born out of the frustrations of watching the ****e we are being fed and an argument I believe is flawed The part I believe is flawed is that young English kids are less talented than foreign kids....they aren't until our coaches get hold of them (the part I agreed with you on). Not as technically gifted but certainly as suited to the English game as the majority of foreign kids....As I keep saying we've done it in the past so there's no reason we can't do it again. It wasn't luck having Gerrard and Carra come through, we had Owen, Mcmanaman, Fowler etc before that. The fact that half the English clubs are rubbish at developing them doesn't mean we should just give up on the whole thing does it? Ask Southampton fans if it can be done. You say there isn't the time in the modern game to blood players. I'd argue against that. The **** we've given game time to over the last decade suggests we could well have given more time to youth players to develop instead. Of course not all will work out but a few might have. As an example, were we any worse off with Spearing in midfield than Allen? I'd suggest not. Should our youth system not be capable of developing players of a better standard than Aspas or Lovren or Origi? It used to, so why not now?
I usually get shot down for making that claim You forgot Balotelli. I'd have taken Richie Partirdge over him!!!
i would rather spearing than joe ****ing usuelss **** Allen! mind you Sisokho (correct spelling?) was probably better than allen. what a waste of fecking money we spend at this club and it's no improvement on what we had genuine question as i cant remember all the youth strikers we have had, surely some of them must have been better to take a punt on that wasting money on ballo,borini,aspas, lambert etc etc.
The amount of money we spend is why I think a top manager would be prepared to join. The club is a sleeping giant, it needs rebuilding and what better way to build a legacy then to reinstate this club to what it was?
It's not just us that aren't bringing local lads through the ranks. Manchester United and Liverpool meet without local talent for first time in Premier League history http://www.skysports.com/football/n...lent-for-first-time-in-premier-league-history Sad sign of the times where managers aren't around long enough to nurture the talent and skills, instant success is what matters these days........unless of course your name is Brendan Rodgers.
