PISKIE - here you go again throwing out a load of old cobblers, you and SJW19 !! The buck stops with the manager, he makes the decisions and he had enough information to make decisions - but made all the wrong ones. Every team has tired players, every team has injuries, Man U have had to play Carrick as a CB FFS. You deal with injuries by having a decent SQUAD. Nasri is quoted as saying he wants to see investment in the squad to sign. He saw Jenkinson - a div 1 player, Santos and Gervinho !! WTF ! Calling him money grabbing is the easy way out for your lot, why should he waste his time at a club that are content in going backwards ?? He wants to win things, fair play to him. He knew Cesc wanted to go to Barcelona ! We didn't give enough time for negotiations to be completed for Henry ! The list goes on because Wenger has been guilty of misjudgement after misjudgement. He had NO contingency plan. The buck stops with Wenger because Wenger is in charge, he makes the decisions regarding who he wants. He insists on playing Walcott as a winger when he will NEVER be a winger. He did the same with Eboue. He did the same with Diaby at LM, he did the same with Bendtner at RM Its, Wenger, Wenger, Wenger, bloody Wenger making the same bloody mistakes over and over and over and never learning from them. His teams never learn from their mistakes either.
That all of these events are not 100% in Wenger's control. There are a multitude of circumstances that come into play. To simply blame Wenger for it all is naive in my opinion.
seems like I'm naive. Odd that other Chairmen. and Boards sack their managers when a succession of things go wrong. Why sack the man who you say has nothing to do with the outcome. Naive?
Grizzly - we bid for Mata when he became out of our price range remember, why was that ? Because Arsenal took too bloody long to make the bid. M'Vila decided to stay at Rennes but Arsenal only bid a half decent amount toward the end of the transfer deadline. We don't need the full facts to have an opinion, most of us know how things work, you can get a general idea of what is what. You didn't need to be a rocket scientist to know that the start of our season was going to be ****e.
I agree Aug/Sept always looked a struggle as new players bedded in and we became used to life after Cesc/Na$ri. As for facts, opinion are what make forums, without them it would be a very dull world, but I just feel there are a number of posters, you included, who jump on anything negative surrounding the football club. I'm not re-writing everything that I've said in previous posts but no-one in here will ever know all facts and if there's a chance that blame should be shared or bounced elsewhere then it may be better if people refrained from adament comments - by all means criticise on factual events, if I agree I'll join you, such as substitutions, team selection etc, these are all indisputable events....
As far as I know, nobody is taking a position of 'never criticising the manager'. I criticised him for taking off Gervinho and Walcott and not bringing on another like for like player against Fulham, so people are willing to point out where they think he gets decisions wrong. Regarding Wenger or any manager, I think the distinction you need to make is between accountability and responsibility. Ultimately the manager is accountable, the buck stops with him. But that doesn't mean that he is responsible for how events unfold.
Grizzly, the bee I have in my bonnet is all of this could've been avoided, it is that simple. What I want to see is the people involved, the management and board, admitting they made big mistakes, some recent and some over a longer period and be seen to be rectifying the problems - not making the same sodding mistakes over and over. It is merely this point that makes me frustrated and angry, nothing else.
And I understand the frustrastions. I'm afraid that as we move towards a single owner we'll get less and less liaison with the board, their accountability is to shareholders primarily and fans second - fans have the option of voting with their feet whereas shareholders hold the purse strings and if they pull out the club is in trouble. More and more owners regard football clubs as businesses, they fail to recognise and appreciate the emotion being a fan generates, this is a worrying trend. I believe the owners of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool would happily cash in and go invest elsewhere if they felt there were better clubs to achieve the individuals goals (whether that's financial return, winning trophies, using club as a tax haven etc), there's no attachment between chairman/owner and the clubs they own. Football has become cold, it's us fans who live in the past and retain the emotional involvement whilst owners buy/sell/break clubs at will...
I think that attacking reinforcements are crucial in January. The defence isn't as bad as people are making out and it will steadily improve as certain individuals regain their fitness and return to the squad. Established quality attacking players are needed more urgently I feel. If we has someone like Poldolski, Hazard or Goetze in the Fulham game we would have killed the game off in the first half and the defensive errors would have been far less costly. It is no longer financially sensible not to invest in the January transfer window as we stand to lose £25 million and our best player if we fail to qualify for the CL. Come on Wenger and Gazidas, let's bring in some players that can make us feel excited about our team again!!!!!
I agree with this, but I don't think we're going to sign top players in January, even if we had the will to, it's likely that they will not be available until the summer at the earliest.
This comes back to the issue of how long negotiations take though Jayram. Like the Henry deal, it's been suggested that until we decided to loan him, we were negotiating for Podolski. It's entirely plausible that we've started a negotiation in December, but that it may not be finalised until the end of January. Conversely, we may move for a player and sign him in the same week. I think there are too many variables for this to be an exact science. I think that Wenger and the officials do what they can in the interests of the club.
This really is where there is disagreement Piskie. First of all there is the definition of what is in the best interests of the club. This could take ages but for the sake of simplicity let's just perhaps agree that the board and Mr Gazidis's often declared stand that the club would not buy success rather to grow it is not altogether the view of everyone. It has to be said too that the fans and even players' view of lack of success by which I mean trophies is deemed acceptable by the board at the Emirates since being in contention and a place in the CL are seen as sufficient goals. So while the board may believe it is acting in the best interests ( of the club ), there are those who would disagree. However the reasons they cite and I refer to the BBC 5 Live interview with Gazidis last Spring about the lack of silverware driving players to look elsewhere, seems not to be taken on board by Mr Gazidis. Now you may believe that the officials of the club are acting in it's best interests but as given above, there is debate about what these interests are. It would perhaps have been helpful to everyone if at the last AGM of the AST, questions were allowed to be asked freely.
I guess it comes down to which players are available and we can sucessfully negotiate for. We can have a wish list, but it remains just that. Also, January is notorious for being a difficult window to bring quality players in as most are involved in title challenges and Champions league football for their respective clubs. Personally, I think we'll do a deal for Henry and another loan deal for a defender in January and that will be about it.
I think that between now and this summer, the club has to do everything possible to convince RvP that it is serious about winning. If all our captain has to show for his time with us and let's agree that these are the best years of his career, then a sole FA Cup medal is surely far less than his due. If he feels that is all he is likely to achieve with us then I fear he is not likely to stay long at the club
i think this January is the most important transfer window for the club for a long while. without reinforcements there will be no title push, and a struggle for the top 4. with a couple of new players, and some pace picked up in the second half, there may not be a title, but there will definitely be top 4, and ambition shown. that would not only mean better players to start next season with that have already bedded in, but also theo & rvp signing new contracts. as it is, players just on loan means a struggle for top 4, and i can honestly see both rvp and theo leaving in summer - which would, as the goal scorers this year show - be an absolute disaster and mean the club needs to spend 100m on new players to compete.
