Nice Attack

[sb_73]

Durbar,

my opinion, because France is always one of the first countries to launch wars/attacks on Muslim countries, as part of this "war on terror"

Look at the countries that are actively taking part in this "war on terror" ? All have acts of "terrorism" upon them ? Coincidence ?

It's also because, I think, France is a much more explicitly secular country than the UK for example, banning all 'indiscreet' religious symbols in schools (most obviously the veil, but also non Muslim symbols) and doing little in terms of teaching about comparative religion and what people believe. This leaves different communities to be taught very narrow understanding from within by believers of their own faiths. It's called lacity, the fourth pillar of Liberty, equality, fraternity. I suppose in theory the same thing could happen in the US.

Another appalling incident, sympathies to all affected. 31 year old French Tunisian apparently responsible.

 

[Chaz]

Terrible thing to wake up to. I feel as sad as we all do that an event like this, driven by such twisted hatred, has happened once more.

It's getting increasingly difficult to see how we can prevent these things. The apparent terrorist was a french national, and although 'known to police', if he'd simply been a name attached to no previous crime, there was nothing they could do - unless you want to go down the Minority Report line and pick people up because they may do something in the future. None of us would be safe under those rules. And there's no laws against driving a truck.

It feels like I have a neighbour who is repeatedly being mugged. Whilst we are still able, our security and intelligence forces should do everything we can to help keep us all as safe as possible.

Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

EDIT: According to the BBC, the status of the perpetrator is that "He had been in trouble with the police in the past for petty crime, but he was not on the watch list of radicalised young men" so it's difficult to see what might have been done ahead of time.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

It's also because, I think, France is a much more explicitly secular country than the UK for example, banning all 'indiscreet' religious symbols in schools (most obviously the veil, but also non Muslim symbols) and doing little in terms of teaching about comparative religion and what people believe. This leaves different communities to be taught very narrow understanding from within by believers of their own faiths. It's called lacity, the fourth pillar of Liberty, equality, fraternity. I suppose in theory the same thing could happen in the US.

Another appalling incident, sympathies to all affected. 31 year old French Tunisian apparently responsible.

You can add the history of the French colonies, and the fact that France has in its midst militant Islamists from North Africa - Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc

It's amazing that at an event when thousands of holidaymakers were packing the pavements on the Nice seafront, the security forces did not foresee that this kind of attack was a possibility. There have been vehicles used as ramming weapons outside France.

At least the cops had guns to stop the terrorist. If it happened here, you'd just hear the ping of tasers as they bounced off the side of the lorry

 

[ELLERS]

was it a stolen English lorry
all the bullet holes are in the wrong side of the windscreen to be aimed at a left hand drive truck

You must log in or register to see images

i thought that when i saw the bullet holes but then i thought they may have been firing from that side of the road.
Hand guns are okay close up but as the distance gets further away it becomes harder to hit a target. We all watch too many films when a hero pulls out a hand gun and takes down 4 bad guys. In real life it's a different story.

As for the question of 'why France"? They have had a lot of trouble with North African immigrants, especially the younth. Old colonial problems and bad relations between the police and locals.

It's very sad that these nutters are doing this. I will be in Nice shortly and now i have to be extra vidulant. But how can anyone think about a lorry running at you? Scary times.

 

[durbar2003]

Well, they don't need AK47s to cause mayhem.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I just wonder how often the French public will tolerate President Hollande coming on the TV and saying - nothing we could have done about it, but I feel your pain

This was avoidable if the security services had been more cautious on one of the most important days of the French year, and stopped the traffic for the firework event. All so laid back...

 

[Chaz]

Unfortunately, the guy worked as a lorry driver. It's very possible he actually had a legitimate reason for driving there, at that time.

I appreciate that it starts to sound hollow, but in this instance, maybe there was nothing that they could have done...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Unfortunately, the guy worked as a lorry driver. It's very possible he actually had a legitimate reason for driving there, at that time.

I appreciate that it starts to sound hollow, but in this instance, maybe there was nothing that they could have done...

Sounds complacent to me.

It was one of the most important days of the year. A man of Arabian extraction, known to Police, drives a massive lorry along a road packed tight with holidaymakers at 10pm at night, guns and bombs next to him on his seat.

Do you think the Israeli security forces would allow that?

 

[durbar2003]

Sounds complacent to me.

It was one of the most important days of the year. A man of Arabian extraction, known to Police, drives a massive lorry along a road packed tight with holidaymakers at 10pm at night, guns and bombs next to him on his seat.

Do you think the Israeli security forces would allow that?

Absolutely not, there's no trucks in Israel! dah (But when they use cars the Israeli police , like everyone else, are only able to react afterwards)

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Absolutely not, there's no trucks in Israel! dah (But when they use cars the Israeli police , like everyone else, are only able to react afterwards)

It's hard to stop your average Terrorist Joe on an average day getting into a car and driving into a bunch of people. Especially if he's a lone wolf, and not on Security Services radar.

But on a Jewish holiday when there were thousands of Israelis out enjoying themselves and walking along pavements, I don't believe the Israeli police would allow fcuking great lorries to drive down thoroughfares particularly without checks on driver and for arms and bombs

Hollande keeps telling France "We're at War!". It's all words, and I just don't think the French will wear it this time

 

[Chaz]

Sounds complacent to me.

It was one of the most important days of the year. A man of Arabian extraction, known to Police, drives a massive lorry along a road packed tight with holidaymakers at 10pm at night, guns and bombs next to him on his seat.

Do you think the Israeli security forces would allow that?

Not complacent, not at all.

I'm sure that the driver would not have had any weapons on display. It looks increasingly like one of those terrible times - thankfully a tiny minority of occasions despite the massive loss of life - where the terror plot succeeded against all the efforts of the police.

And don't forget - the driver was NOT on the security forces radar. He'd been involved in petty crimes before, but nothing in any way related with radicalism or terror offences.

 

[QPR999]

It's been reported that the lorry had been parked up for nine hours on the promenade prior to the attack. The police questioned the driver and he said he was delivering ice cream. You would expect the police to check the lorry and the ID of the driver to validate this claim, especially as the lorry had no livery to give an indication that the driver was telling the truth.

 

[TheBigDipper]

It's been reported that the lorry had been parked up for nine hours on the promenade prior to the attack. The police questioned the driver and he said he was delivering ice cream. You would expect the police to check the lorry and the ID of the driver to validate this claim, especially as the lorry had no livery to give an indication that the driver was telling the truth.

If that's accurate, I wouldn't like to be the policeman responsible for that area of the Promenade. It sounds very slack. Goldie will be pleased to hear I think our police would have done better than that.

Sad business.

 

[sb_73]

Sounds complacent to me.

It was one of the most important days of the year. A man of Arabian extraction, known to Police, drives a massive lorry along a road packed tight with holidaymakers at 10pm at night, guns and bombs next to him on his seat.

Do you think the Israeli security forces would allow that?

Why is Israel held up as some kind of 'place to be' when it comes to terrorism? 14 Israeli deaths so far this year in terrorist attacks, zero in the UK linked to Islamists, and it must be a horrible place to live, militarised, permanent fear. We have a grand total of 57 Islamist related deaths, 56 in 7/7 and Lee Rigby.

This appears to be another lone nutter attack, almost impossible to detect in advance whether they are radicalised or not, as the killer of Jo Cox shows us. You could drive a lorry down any busy shopping street in the UK any day of the year and kill dozens, even by accident as that horrible incident in Glasgow showed. Perhaps the French police could have done better, let's see what the investigation says about it.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Why is Israel held up as some kind of 'place to be' when it comes to terrorism? 14 Israeli deaths so far this year in terrorist attacks, zero in the UK linked to Islamists, and it must be a horrible place to live, militarised, permanent fear. We have a grand total of 57 Islamist related deaths, 56 in 7/7 and Lee Rigby.

This appears to be another lone nutter attack, almost impossible to detect in advance whether they are radicalised or not, as the killer of Jo Cox shows us. You could drive a lorry down any busy shopping street in the UK any day of the year and kill dozens, even by accident as that horrible incident in Glasgow showed. Perhaps the French police could have done better, let's see what the investigation says about it.

Israeli security services are second to none.

This wasn't an ordinary day. If it had been, I'd be much more sympathetic to the French.

 

[ELLERS]

Sounds complacent to me.

It was one of the most important days of the year. A man of Arabian extraction, known to Police, drives a massive lorry along a road packed tight with holidaymakers at 10pm at night, guns and bombs next to him on his seat.

Do you think the Israeli security forces would allow that?

It's very difficult to call TBH. Many people in Nice are, or look tanned so it hard to tell. Even when i go away i can look like Omar Sharif (without the hair.. and looks...body...and money). Sometimes it's the unexpected that fools the authorities. With all the carnival/fireworks going on who is to say he couldn't have been delivering ice cream?
It's very difficult to police every city in France and stop every van/lorry you see.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

It's very difficult to call TBH. Many people in Nice are, or look tanned so it hard to tell. Even when i go away i can look like Omar Sharif (without the hair.. and looks...body...and money). Sometimes it's the unexpected that fools the authorities. With all the carnival/fireworks going on who is to say he couldn't have been delivering ice cream?
It's very difficult to police every city in France and stop every van/lorry you see.

He had his id card on him. And this guy was known to the police for violence

European Football tournaments, military parades, Bastille day celebrations, presidential cavalcades are all events of high risk, so I'd say traffic, and certainly unvetted heavy goods vehicles, should be restricted during the duration of the event

 

[durbar2003]

Why is Israel held up as some kind of 'place to be' when it comes to terrorism? 14 Israeli deaths so far this year in terrorist attacks, zero in the UK linked to Islamists, and it must be a horrible place to live, militarised, permanent fear. We have a grand total of 57 Islamist related deaths, 56 in 7/7 and Lee Rigby.

This appears to be another lone nutter attack, almost impossible to detect in advance whether they are radicalised or not, as the killer of Jo Cox shows us. You could drive a lorry down any busy shopping street in the UK any day of the year and kill dozens, even by accident as that horrible incident in Glasgow showed. Perhaps the French police could have done better, let's see what the investigation says about it.

Comparing Israel to the UK is a little ludicrous, we are not surrounded my millions of crazy Arabs whose sole aim is the eradication of Israel and the Jews.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Comparing Israel to the UK is a little ludicrous, we are not surrounded my millions of crazy Arabs whose sole aim is the eradication of Israel and the Jews.

True. The nearest thing we have is the Labour Party Conference

 

[rangercol]

He had his id card on him. And this guy was known to the police for violence

European Football tournaments, military parades, Bastille day celebrations, presidential cavalcades are all events of high risk, so I'd say traffic, and certainly unvetted heavy goods vehicles, should be restricted during the duration of the event

I agree. I'm afraid this is yet another example of France's poor security operations.
That truck wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a large celebration in this country.
By the way, if there's an attack in London, armed police are primed to respond, plus, more importantly the SAS are stationed there, again primed to respond.
But you're right that in many areas there wouldn't be an armed response.