I admire your optimism in this current lot, Scowey, but I think there is going to be a fairly big shake-up and exodus whether we like it or not. Five loanees returning to their parent clubs, which will leave gaps in the first eleven, and then several squad players with contracts due to expire. Tally those up to the obvious need to trim the wage bill and offload the likes of Bart, and the need for recruitment becomes necessary. I appreciate you said a 'modest overhaul', but that would require putting a fair amount of faith in the likes of Gerken, Kenlock, Emmanuel, Woolfenden, Nsiala, Adeyemi, Dozzell, Nydam, Huws, Jackson, and Harrison to step up in the division below and significantly improve their performances and fitness levels. This squad is on course for one of the lowest points total in the Championship, so League One isn't necessarily going to be a walk in the park without some good signings. I don't think 10 or 20 signings are required, that's far too drastic and not what I'm advocating, but I think six or seven new signings, in areas where we need quality and competition should be a priority. A goalkeeper, left-back, right-back, centre-back, central midfielder, a left winger, and two strikers. Players experienced in a promotion fight, a few vocal, on-pitch leaders, and players with a good record in this division. That's how I think we get out of League One quickly. Maybe keeping Keane and signing Marquis are optimistic beliefs, fair points, but I believe they are the calibre of player needed at the club if we want to achieve an instant return to the Championship. Reliable League One scorers are out there, and Harrison has eight and twelve goals in his two recent League One seasons respectively, so he'd need an experienced player alongside him. Jackson had one good season in League Two, and has struggled so far this season. I wouldn't trust those two leading the line in a promotion-chasing side.
I think the main issue was that Roy Keane didn't care about our academy and diverted its funds to the first team and senior set-up, he forced Bryan Klug out of the club, offloaded our existing youth players, and started an unwelcome culture of signing over-priced, senior players on big egos and bigger contracts, that was continued under Paul Jewell. The squad Mick inherited several bad characters and had a mercenary type of feel to it. Klug came back under Mick's time and the youth academy received more investment and attention under Mick and Evans, mainly as they realised that bringing through youth was a positive - the benefits of which we are starting to see.
I don't know how the blame can be put on the academy set up when we are talking about a 5-and-a-half year stint and talented players were still coming through - there's no question that Mick would put those players in, he just didn't seem to be able to grow them. Either that or if the quality of academy products is the problem - and I don't believe it is - then Klug does need to go.
In no way shape or form does Klug need to go, he’s absolutely fantastic and Keane getting rid of him is the single biggest reason our academy has gone backwards for years. Cheers Keane you utter melt.
That I'm afraid is absolute nonsense.. Yes there are many factors involved in developing and transitioning junior athletes into senior programmes, but the dismantling of an adequate system and it's personnel has clearly had a long lasting impact. It's not like we can just turn the tap back on and everything works again. The 2 years Roy was here (along with the subsequent Jewell years) meant we effectively needed almost start again. We are now seeing the 11 year olds that were at the club when Klug returned in 2012.. Hence we are seeing our youth teams providing players to England youth teams and players getting more and more game time with the 1st team. This comment I can kind of agree with as I don't think Mick ever got the best out of 'Technicians' and was more suitable (certainly more comfortable at least working with) 'blood and thunder' type footballer, but Mick actually played a few youngsters so I think it's very revisionist to say that we don't produce Academy players that make the 1st team, as Mick can be credited with debuts for a lot of our current youngsters.. But we haven't brought through a Dyer or Richard Wright that can drastically improve the 1st team, but the game has changed somewhat since their beginnings in football and maybe, just maybe the players we have are not as amazing as we all want them to be.. Which is in keeping with the quality of the rest of the squad. I write this as I'm producing a piece of work for UKSport on funding for junior athletes and athlete succession planning as far ahead as the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles so can add plenty further but don't want to throw too much into a football forum
Hi Scowey I don’t believe many if any of those players were at the club age 11. Kieron Dyer, Darren Bent, Titus Bramble certainly weren’t and neither were Connor Wickham, Jack Marriott, Luke Woolfenden or Jordan Rhodes to the best of my knowledge (Luke wasn’t, I know his old coach). A lot of very top players do start that young, I know, but also many join aged 14, 15, 16 so I'm not sure we can blame it all on Roy Keane. Putting talent to the side for a moment, what do you think about the likes of Carson and Marriott ‘going off the rails’. Is that a symptom of a lack of discipline and professionalism at the club level? Is it a lack of faith in the club from those players that it matters? Or is it up to the individuals?
Of course he does - he coaches players a certain way and we lost kids at various age groups not coached as well as prior. Klug is an outstanding youth coach and Keane set us back years.
Roy Keane made many mistakes, wasted millions, and set the academy back years. Paul Jewell made mistakes, wasted millions, and almost relegated club. Mick McCarthy made mistakes and, despite being the best manager of the lot, left us with a broken legacy and a lack of long-term development. Paul Hurst made mistakes, wasted millions, and left us with a League One standard squad. Paul Lambert made mistakes and has consigned this club to an early relegation, with possibly one of the lowest points total recorded in the division. All these managers, all those years, all that money wasted, and all that investment subsequently held back. One play off campaign in 13 long, mostly uneventful seasons. And it’s all come under Marcus Evans’ ownership. He is the main reason for our long-term decline, he has held this club back, and it is under him that we have dropped to the third division for the first time in over 60 years.
It’s a factor, I don’t know how much of a factor. I would be more inclined to say it’s a temporary and limited one. Nobody has really touched on why all those players who show potential have fallen away - especially when some of them have had plenty of game time. I do not believe it’s down to a lack of quality.
In honesty Hampy all sorts of reasons- mentality / money etc. Carson and Marriott for example both lived it up one summer .... their call. Some like Hyam I don’t think are all that - but yeah. Depends how we look at it- some maybe make a good debut but not really good enough.
The Academy system was different when the likes of Bent, Bramble, Dyer were coming through so that is a little like comparing apples with oranges.. Also, as a team sport the group of 11 year olds who don't go on to make it are incredibly important, Some will call them 'training donkeys' etc. but you generally need 15 or so players at least in order to unearth one that is of real interest, such is the churn with any performance level sport at Junior level. Even at International level the Spanish U20's that won the 1999 World Youth Championships produced three players that went on to play in one of the top tiers of major European football, which where Xavi, Casillas (Sub Keeper) and our very own Pablo Counago. The point I'm trying to make is that whilst Keane was here, the youngsters aged 11 - 17 had a massive barrier put in front of them and were not invested in or valued. Therefore the opportunities were more and more limited and a huge group of athletes were effectively cast aside without due care or attention and it has taken a number of years to establish a system that promotes the kind of physical, Mental, Technical and Tactical development that has produced some positive outcomes... Which we are now beginning to see the fruit of the work being done since 2012. I would put 'blame' against a few parties in those particular examples. Managing young people is a challenge that seems to get more and more complex with each Generation (and I've sat through many a fascinating meeting around Generation Z) There is an expectation on Clubs to produce 'footballers' but this is often at the expense of developing 'people' and I would say the likes of Carson & Marriott were not prepared for the whole gamut of professional sport whilst they were with us, which exposed a huge flaw in their ability to perform at the level required. And I suspect that the focus at the club was even more unbalanced when it came to PMTT (Physical, Mental, Technical, Tactical) which I mentioned earlier You could argue that the Mental development (such as Robustness and Resilience) are components that should inbuilt and come from within, but I would argue that it can be nurtured and developed and should be treated equally alongside 'technical'.... But I think this is just another example of an area that Football in general is a long way behind Olympic sports who have far better practices across a whole range of systems and in sport science and sports medicine and develop better 'rounded athletes'
One thing Keane did when incharge, was demand the academy pitches be put the other side of Playford Road so the lads couldn't interfere with the first team, and spent a multi million sum of money on the changing rooms, meeting rooms and offices on Playford Road. Further to this, he didn't spend a single penny on the academy. Keane set us back years. Hate him.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/roy-ke...-something-on-the-bottom-of-my-shoe-1-3797639 From the horses mouth. “I don’t think I’m a bad manager, but at Ipswich I managed badly,” writes Keane. “I spoke to some people like something on the bottom of my shoe.” How anyone can stick up for Keane during his tenure at us I cannot fathom, in any aspect, when even he admitted he didn't do well with us. Sure, there are more factors regarding youth than one coach - I don't think any of us are saying there aren't. However, Klug is very well respected in the game, and many prospects have praised the work he's done with them over time for us. I think getting rid of Klug, was at best naive.
Not really but one thing I’m not going to do is open up that can of worms and attempt a nuanced debate on the subject - that would go well.
