Next few months: Is it typical LFC?

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BCR

BCR

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2011
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ATL
First off, good teams beat teams when playing bad and that is what we did with Bournemouth, great teams can do it consistently. What I propose in the OP is this phrase..... "typical Liverpool".

Let me start by saying when I started to support LFC, it was around 94-95 when I was 10-11 years old. All that I have really known when it comes to how our club is run and our seasons is almost here, almost there turmoil, changeover, fresh hope, turmoil, change, fresh hope rinse and repeat. For the older posters, Dave, PMK, Billy, Saint, RHC, they know of days gone by when this was not the case. Hell, the only reason I knew about KK and Rush growing up was because of my uncle's friend who used to come over on July 4th for beer and fireworks, Eddie McCready. (Scottish connect obv).

You can almost hear the commentators and pundits joke about it "typical Liverpool" when it comes to looking like we may do something and then it comes to an end. For the first time in a while we have some serious hope again, overall a decent team, a manager that is young, willing to give youth a chance, and plays a vibrant brand of football. We have a forward who looking more likely to be in for the Ballon d'or, a rising English star striker, untapped potential in Coutinho, Sakho, a GK who could be a force in years, etc. We have so much to look forward to.

But....... typical liverpool.

Here we are in the last week of January and for me, it screams 2011-2012 with KK where we were there, even after some shoddy purchases, we were right there in the mix with the top 4, just won the CC, in the mix for FA ( and almost went all the way). Then it happened..... the CM got light and in that, the CDM. Fast forward a few years and here we are again, this time in the top four (just about) still close to the top and within a reasonable shout for the title but for me, with one glaring drawback..... CM. Are we as a club going to be "typical liverpool" and not make the step forward?

Imagine what a purchase of M'Vila, Banega, Fernando Reges, Lassana Diarra, etc would do to not only the quality of our CM's but the morale around the camp? We recognized a weakness and MADE THE NEXT STEP! We moved on it, we fixed what could potentially be the undoing of our season or at least a big reason of it.

From Souness to Evans, Evans to Houllier, Parry and Moores, Hicks and Gillett, Rafa, Roy, FSG, KK, Rodgers, this is what I have seen in my lifetime and we have always been almost there, almost back into being that top team that we as LFC supporters pride ourselves over. Will we make the next step? Will we stop being "typical Liverpool" and make the next step, solidify top four, keep Suarez, build a squad full of quality and become the elite club we know we can become again?

So many questions but I am interested to see what will happen and will back the club either way. With about a week left and a big rival strengthening, let's see if we can make the next step and get to being mentioned with the big boys, without a chuckle, without a smirk, but with the knowledge that we are LFC, we are back, and we are here to stay. <ok>
 
On Salah and targets. Will we pull the trigger and strengthen to help ensure top four?

&#8220;It is one where the agent of the player and the clubs were talking but if the deal can't be done, the deal can't be done.

&#8220;He's a boy that is a talent. He is 21 years of age and people saw his qualities in the games against Chelsea and Tottenham in Europe, but you need to have that list because if it doesn't work out then you are hoping there are one or two others.

&#8220;To be the fair the club has been working hard on a number of targets. The club has been working very hard to get players in. I'll leave that to them and see how they get on.

&#8220;We need players to come in now to help us but January is a very difficult market.

&#8220;It is hard to bring in players that can improve the team, especially in this window. I'd rather wait and look at our young players than bring in one or two squad players.&#8221;
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Why the **** am I on the list of older posters when I'm half (ish) Saints age <grr>



The "typical Liverpool" scenario over recent seasons has been to be out of the title race by November so at least we made it another 6 weeks this time <laugh> To answer your question though Bluff it's beginning to feel more and more like it may well be another missed opportunity. Doomsday scenario is us not signing anybody....that's not just in terms of our squad depth or the impact on the rest of the season but equally it will speak volumes for the effectiveness of the transfer committee (6 months to identify one player in a position we aren't even weak).

Not to be too negative (yet....<whistle>) as there's a few days left yet so fingers crossed for SAS to click again on Tuesday and get the feelgood factor back....then sign a boss midfielder and full back :D
 
the artist known as Billy El Pistolero said:
Why the **** am I on the list of older posters when I'm half (ish) Saints age <grr>



The "typical Liverpool" scenario over recent seasons has been to be out of the title race by November so at least we made it another 6 weeks this time <laugh> To answer your question though Bluff it's beginning to feel more and more like it may well be another missed opportunity. Doomsday scenario is us not signing anybody....that's not just in terms of our squad depth or the impact on the rest of the season but equally it will speak volumes for the effectiveness of the transfer committee (6 months to identify one player in a position we aren't even weak).

Not to be too negative (yet....<whistle>) as there's a few days left yet so fingers crossed for SAS to click again on Tuesday and get the feelgood factor back....then sign a boss midfielder and full back :D
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Why did I think you are one of the older ones? Maybe Jonesy I was thinking of or JB? Either way, the whole damn thing with CM for me is ****ing glaring. I know you put coin in on Allen and you want that to come good but I can only see him as squad player at best. Hendo is improving but could do with some more learning and rotation. Gerrard, very divisive figure on here ( Daaavvveeeee :) ) but what is his real role now? Lucas just seems to be injury prone all the time and that is the position, the destroyer, the one who keeps position and shape, who disrupts AND starts the attack. Why have we not added competition, why have we not look at this spot? Are we pinching? Do we really feel what we have is good enough? So many questions that really need addressing if we really want fourth.

Full backs, JE is great but he is starting to look injury prone and GJ, well we have all been over this multiple times. Two areas we really need to address. I feel OK at CB though, Sakho, Agger, Skrtel, Illori, are good enough and hopefully illori gets that experience to come in next year.

We are so close to getting back in the CL, to getting back to being able to say " let's go after Toni Kroos" for example and no one will laugh as we are LFC, we have cash, and we have CL.
 
BCR said:
Why did I think you are one of the older ones? Maybe Jonesy I was thinking of or JB? Either way, the whole damn thing with CM for me is f**king glaring. I know you put coin in on Allen and you want that to come good but I can only see him as squad player at best. Hendo is improving but could do with some more learning and rotation. Gerrard, very divisive figure on here ( Daaavvveeeee :) ) but what is his real role now? Lucas just seems to be injury prone all the time and that is the position, the destroyer, the one who keeps position and shape, who disrupts AND starts the attack. Why have we not added competition, why have we not look at this spot? Are we pinching? Do we really feel what we have is good enough? So many questions that really need addressing if we really want fourth.

Full backs, JE is great but he is starting to look injury prone and GJ, well we have all been over this multiple times. Two areas we really need to address. I feel OK at CB though, Sakho, Agger, Skrtel, Illori, are good enough and hopefully illori gets that experience to come in next year.

We are so close to getting back in the CL, to getting back to being able to say " let's go after Toni Kroos" for example and no one will laugh as we are LFC, we have cash, and we have CL.
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Take no notice Bluff, Billy is an oldie like saint he just dresses younger and dyes his hair.<whistle>
 
&#8220;It is one where the agent of the player and the clubs were talking but if the deal can't be done, the deal can't be done.

&#8220;He's a boy that is a talent. He is 21 years of age and people saw his qualities in the games against Chelsea and Tottenham in Europe, but you need to have that list because if it doesn't work out then you are hoping there are one or two others.

&#8220;To be the fair the club has been working hard on a number of targets. The club has been working very hard to get players in. I'll leave that to them and see how they get on.

&#8220;We need players to come in now to help us but January is a very difficult market.

&#8220;It is hard to bring in players that can improve the team, especially in this window. I'd rather wait and look at our young players than bring in one or two squad players.&#8221;

-----


Through gritted teeth he said all this, thought that when I first read it
 
The DR says said:
&#8220;It is one where the agent of the player and the clubs were talking but if the deal can't be done, the deal can't be done.

&#8220;He's a boy that is a talent. He is 21 years of age and people saw his qualities in the games against Chelsea and Tottenham in Europe, but you need to have that list because if it doesn't work out then you are hoping there are one or two others.

&#8220;To be the fair the club has been working hard on a number of targets. The club has been working very hard to get players in. I'll leave that to them and see how they get on.

&#8220;We need players to come in now to help us but January is a very difficult market.

&#8220;It is hard to bring in players that can improve the team, especially in this window. I'd rather wait and look at our young players than bring in one or two squad players.&#8221;

-----


Through gritted teeth he said all this, thought that when I first read it
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Part in bold said a lot for me. A man who is subliminally letting the fans know who is behind the lack of action perhaps?
 
Page_Moss_Kopite said:
Take no notice Bluff, Billy is an oldie like saint he just dresses younger and dyes his hair.
Click to expand...

Eh at least I've still got my own hair :emoticon-0147-emo:


As for the transfer situation Bluff we just have to wait and see but we all know the score in terms of squad depth so the signals of not investing would be very mixed indeed. Is it lack of cash (a feeble excuse when you consider the ramifications of no CL), lack of trust in BR (harsh), lack of viable targets for those positions, playing hardball (or moneyball still)???

Looking at the positions I don't share your confidence in Ming (yet) mate, he has good and bad points but he certainly hasn't improved our all round game at the back, the centre backs I agree we're well covered but the way we play they are always going to be exposed at times, full backs are an issue and I can't help thinking the crazy amounts of ground they have to cover is contributing to their injuries, midfield has been discussed a thousand times and attack is our strongest area (so why are we trying to increase options there in this window?).

It's certainly not all bad, what we have that's good is really, really good but as has so often been the case in recent history we are still surrounding top, top players with ones that simply aren't good enough. We're close to being a real contender but as you say we've been here before. The big question is can we make the step back up again? With a bit of ambition we can yes and that doesn't have to equate to a massive overspend just a reasonable level of investment given what's at stake.
 
the artist known as Billy El Pistolero said:
Eh at least I've still got my own hair :emoticon-0147-emo:


As for the transfer situation Bluff we just have to wait and see but we all know the score in terms of squad depth so the signals of not investing would be very mixed indeed. Is it lack of cash (a feeble excuse when you consider the ramifications of no CL), lack of trust in BR (harsh), lack of viable targets for those positions, playing hardball (or moneyball still)???

Looking at the positions I don't share your confidence in Ming (yet) mate, he has good and bad points but he certainly hasn't improved our all round game at the back, the centre backs I agree we're well covered but the way we play they are always going to be exposed at times, full backs are an issue and I can't help thinking the crazy amounts of ground they have to cover is contributing to their injuries, midfield has been discussed a thousand times and attack is our strongest area (so why are we trying to increase options there in this window?).

It's certainly not all bad, what we have that's good is really, really good but as has so often been the case in recent history we are still surrounding top, top players with ones that simply aren't good enough. We're close to being a real contender but as you say we've been here before. The big question is can we make the step back up again? With a bit of ambition we can yes and that doesn't have to equate to a massive overspend just a reasonable level of investment given what's at stake.
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Just to stoke the fire of debate, I'll give names:

For those with more recognized names we missed out on in the 90's please help as I was young!
Laudrup ( KK even walked him around Anfield, no dice.....)
Sheringham ( Evans wanted him, board blocked the move, the rest.... well)
Anelka ( young, proven Anelka, passed on for Diouf)
John Terry ( You read Thommo's book, had we qualified for the CL instead of CL and Abromovich, Terry would have come to us)
Cristiano Ronaldo ( depends on the stories you believe between us, arsenal, and united but could be viable)
Simao Sabrosa ( couldn't meet the price, Parry and Moores)
Dani Alves ( Rafa was told it was either Alves OR Kuyt, but not both, Rafa went for Kuyt with an eye on Arbeloa)
Stefan Jovetic ( instead of Aquilani, had to do a deal with Roma since they owed us with Riise)
Tevez & Eto'o ( right after that 2nd place finish both were in transfer limbo and expressed interst but we never jumped)
Arda Turan ( You can't make signals any more clear than what this man has to LFC yet we never came calling....)
Blaise Matuidi ( Before moving to PSG, one of Comolli's targets, might have changed our opinions of him if we actually got this man!)
Mario Gomez -( in 2012, Jamie Carragher lifted the lid on Liverpool wanting to sign Mario Gomez but subsequently ending up with Andy Carroll. It's safe to say that Andy Carroll's days at Liverpool always had huge potential to become a massive flop and did. Mario Gomez on the other hand went on to net 28 goals the year after Liverpool pursued him and has won numerous trophies in Germany with Bayern Munich.)
Mario Gotze - (in 2011, Liverpool reportedly had the choice between signing German starlet Mario Gotze or England starlet Jordan Henderson. Both Dalglish and Damien Comolli said Jordan Henderson was their number one target. They unfortunately landed their man and despite coming to form recently, it must still stick in the teeth of some Liverpool fans. )
Nemanja Vidic - (in 2006 Daniel Alves was not Liverpool's only mistake. During an interview with FourFourTwo the Manchester United legend admitted to holding talks with Liverpool before his move to Manchester United in 2006. The defender claimed the meetings just stopped with Liverpool, and in the end the move to Manchester United was the correct choice)

Now, I know every team has this type of situation, what could have been, but it always seems an issue with LFC and not making the moves quick enough, not breaking the bank on quality and missing out, etc.
 
Good thread bluff <ok>

It does look like if that holding or defensive midfielder isn't purchased we will be looking back and asking why the **** we didn't do that! I would be a tad more understanding if Lucas didn't get injured again but even if he was fit it's been a position that has needed competition for years now.

I thought at the beginning of the window that we would go for a quick fix for the rest of the season and buy our future prospect in the summer in the hope that they would be fully ready by 2015/16 season. When de Jong rumours started I thought 'that'll do'

I think BR will be more frustrated than anyone if we don't strengthen this window given we are sitting in 4th spot and the mancs have just bought mats and have Rooney and RVP pretty much ready to come back.

Just have to hope we have something up our sleeve I guess!
 
"Typical Liverpool" has been a phrase used about Liverpool since they were formed I suppose but has meant many different things over the years. To my Dad it meant the Liverpool board who were renown for keeping their money in the trousers - even if it meant getting relegated. After that it morphed slightly into good try but no teddy bear when it came to promotion back to Division 1. For me it was totally different. Truly a Shankly child the phrase encapsulated the spirit that he brought to the team and every match. What that became for others as we rolled on up to the formation of the Premiership they will have to tell but for me that spirit was lost after Hysel.

After Hillsborough the guts were truly knocked out of the club. Looking back I would claim that what we have achieved since is still a great testament to the heart of the club as I truly believe that the weight of the tragedy would have completely broken lesser clubs. But the effects are to be seen in the meaning that the phrase "Typical Liverpool" has come to represent today. As I continually say (especially in relation to United) success and failure is cyclical - especially when you hit predominant positions. For Liverpool, the tide has been against us. Sadly it is too soon to say that the tide has turned but we can only hope that it has.

So perhaps the summation of that is that the meaning of the phrase depends upon where you wish to view it from.
 
Alright you batards, why am I being used as the board's embodiment of oldieness? ****ers. The last time Billy was "half my age" was about 30 years ago.
And I've still got my own hair- if I can remember where I've put it.

I have to agree with dave here. "Typical LFC" doesn't exist- it depends what period you're looking at. For those with the memory of a goldfish it might seem that we repeat the same pattern each year, but the bigger picture is more varied. As dave said, periods of success are cyclical, those who think Utd can't possibly fail for long are being naive ( I'm not saying they will, btw, just that it's not as crazy an idea as some think).
If we believe we're destined to repeat the same recent pattern ad infinitum then we might as well give up now.
The real difficulty is that the influx of vast amounts of money from outside of the game to a small number of clubs has made it difficult to compete with those mega-rich clubs. This is why I say we have to believe that getting the best out of a group of decent players sprinkled with a handful of genuine stars can at least drag us up to the point where we can attract more of the top players. We have neither the rep or the money to do this atm.

Bluff's list of catastrophes is interesting, but a lot of them can only be seen to be bad with hindsight and I'm sure the reasons behind the decisions are also varied. To take one example, Kuyt, for instance. When we bought him he was a goal machine in the Dutch league, so he seemed like the right choice. We couldn't know that he would find it harder in the PL.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be as alarmed as anyone if we don't strengthen in our obvious weak areas this window. I'm just as frustrated at our inability to find the right buy, it's just that I don't want to point the finger of blame without really knowing the reasons.
 
Foredeckdave said:
To my Dad it meant the Liverpool board who were renown for keeping their money in the trousers - even if it meant getting relegated. For me it was totally different. Truly a Shankly child the phrase encapsulated the spirit that he brought to the team and every match. What that became for others as we rolled on up to the formation of the Premiership they will have to tell but for me that spirit was lost after Hysel.
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Good post Foredeck, and let's not forget it was Shanks who managed to persuade them to get their hands out of their pockets/shaking the moths out of their wallets and sign some players.

'Typical Liverpool', hmm, guess this has meant us being seen as a team perennially in transition for the last few seasons with no real progress happening. That needs to change if we want success, stability is the key to that but we still have instability on the pitch as posts in this thread about our being weak in CM and at the back (still!) attest. Until we sort that out there'll continue to be flux. A good, strong, title contending squad is always in flux as players inevitable come in and out - tactics, injuries, rotation etc - but in a smooth and calm way, too much of our season so far is still characterised by panic. The injury list isn't helping and we've been v unlucky in that regard but it's also down to a failure to address the squad's balance/makeup.
 
Great article BCR.

I thought the "Typical Liverpool" of shooting themselves in the foot through weak decisions, would end with the brave tough stance that Henry took with Suarez this summer. There was nothing "typical" about it, and it galvanised the club's self-image to that of an ambitous big club. Which we are! and must act like it every f***ing transfer window. What other club in the world could remain in the top six in commercial revenues after not winning the league since the freaking Berlin wall and being well out of CL for several long years? None.

Refer to what Coutinho said in his recent interview about LFC coming knocking when he was at Inter, European treble winners 2 years before - he just couldn't believe that a club like Liverpool would be asking for him. Consider the whisking of Suarez, a top forward already, from Ajax and him waxing lyrical about Liverpool's appeal power and genuinely so.

The caveat being we shouldn't go for those targets that are flirting with Chelsea, City and PSGs of the world. These players are often either overvalued or posh loving, or history challenged, or self-adoring dimwits enclosed in their small twitterverses. And very talented, sure. Not our pool of players though. However, neither are Aspas, Moses, Cissokho, Allen, Downing, Caroll, Assaidi. Illori too was a big gamble at 7 million, having only played a handful of games for the reserve team of Sporting.

There are hundreds of talented defensive midfielders out there in over a dozen respectable leagues who as we speak would be ready to kill in order to get tapped by LFC. It's not Brendan's fault - he's got already plenty to worry about already, to keep an informed eye on who's tearing up turfs in Argentina. It's all down to our scouts, and FSG, as they evaluate their work.
 
Livtor said:
There are hundreds of talented defensive midfielders out there in over a dozen respectable leagues who as we speak would be ready to kill in order to get tapped by LFC. It's not Brendan's fault - he's got already plenty to worry about already, to keep an informed eye on who's tearing up turfs in Argentina. It's all down to our scouts, and FSG, as they evaluate their work.
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well if we end up with nothing this window, whatever the reason committee,scouts etc something needs to be looked at, as we cant afford to fanny around like we have been trying to sign players.

i prefer the old school way of signing players any way, manager is involved because at the end of the day its his neck on the line as he is judged on performances on the pitch and he needs the players he deems good enough to do that, not hope someone else (commitee etc)can negotiate for him, as look where that is getting us.

tell you one thing, being a Liverpool scout must be the easiest ****ing job in the world.
 
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