In what way did I fail, Imaz? You seem to have posted a link as a way to get somebody else - in this case a Grauniad journalist - to make you point for you. But did you actually read the article and/or marry it up to the pints that I made? I see no contradiction. Further, I see the foremost left-wing newspaper leading the outcry against the accursed privileged Royals and their nefarious powers to interfere with democratically-elected government... Which is a great example of what I described. The article is a scaremongering preach to the converted. People really ought to learn to think for themselves.
If you think the Guardian is on the left these days (if ever) you're living in dreamland. Uber, Ubermensch? Nice.
There has been a seismic political shift over the last 30 years, Imaz, such that what seemed looney left in the mid-80s is now centrefield, so it comes as no surprise that one may think the Guardian to have taken the middle ground these days. It also comes as no surprise that people that disagree with my perfectly reasonable opinions should introduce oblique insults, as I'm assuming was meant by the last comment. Perhaps you'd care to explain what you meant by it?
I wouldn't worry about that Uber. He's called me a fascist and a racist so many times now it doesn't even register. Uber lad, saying that Royal honours are left wing does your argument no service whatsoever. Simply because it makes no sense. The left want nothing to do with the Monarchy let alone have them dishing out Knighthoods which they regard to be archaic and the stuff of fairytale books. Again I would urge you not to label something left wing just because you think its nonsense. The Queen giving out honours such as these may well be nonsensical but left wing it most definitely is not. As for the political shift, you have a point but that's simply down to the natural progression of the times. What might be considered conservative now would be central 40 or 50 years ago. It actually happens by default as society progresses. Some people don't like change and will resist it with all their might. Conservatism by its very nature means clinging onto "traditional" values and kind of going the against the natural advancement of society. As for The Guardian being left wing. Are you havin' a laugh now?
Think uber has a point, there is an army of people out there who go above and beyond the call of duty on a daily basis for little or no thanks. Rewarding sports people for doing something they love, well, does seem a little strange. Least we forget that our dearly departed Leslie Mark Hughes was a holder of an MBE and OBE, and he proved a useless berk. The system now means less for those that really do deserve an honour. gloomy.
One of your moderators has always considered himself a bit of a lefty tbh... but there's been no left or right wing in British politics since Thatcher. Up until then the left wing agenda had been all about social and economic equality with particular emphasis on opportunity, education and health for ordinary working people. Tried the same with legal representation but it didn't work out. So, as Imaz suggests, the principled left had no time for elitism, be it in the form of monarchy, aristocracy, religion or gongs and titles for the luvvies. But there was a difference between those lefties who, rightly imo, took the evolutionary / parliamentary route back in the day (as opposed to the better known revolutionary one which promises so much for so many but later invariably turns to **** for most) and those contemporaries of Bliar-ite capitulation. The originals HAD to genuflect to the established order to score gradual change, whereas the Bliar-ites happily bought into it - with the currency of populism and the removal of Clause 4. So down into the age of cynicism we spiral. Not only is there no left / right wing agendas these days, there are no political ideals at all. The spectrum's gone and what we're left with is a void. Now it's all about political careers, spin and the creation of folk devils (Axis of Evil, Al Qaeda etc.) from whom these spineless creeps would have us believe they're there to protect us mere mortals from. So in answer to Uber's rather courageous thread topic, wholeheartedly agree. Get rid of the gongs for the chaps / chapesses bollox. National honours are meaningless without due recognition for successful endeavour in all walks of life. Whilst the system still used pays lip service to this idea, those of us who've ever spent time campaigning for anything worthwhile will know how narrow our politicians really are. Nothing to do with issues and all about faces that fit the cynical agenda. Orwell wasn't far off, was he?
Swords lad, you just don't get it do you? This must be a failure in my articulation rather than of your comprehension, I don't doubt. Of course the origins of the honours system lies in the Royal establishment and of course those awarded trot off to the Palace (when their tax residency status isn't under threat) to receive their gongs from Her Maj. But those selected for these not-so-prestigious-anymore awards have been by our political and social elite, albeit with a few long-serving footmen and ladies-in-waiting thrown in as a sop to the Windsors. It's quite fascinating that thirty years after the creation of the SDP by Owen, Williams, Jenkins and that other bloke the three main political parties are largely indistinguishable from each other and that Labour breakaway party from yesteryear, particularly in terms of their populist social instincts.
