New stadium thread

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The club's announced the construction partner for WHL2: http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/club-appoints-construction-partner-201115/

...and I'm filled with horror at the thought, given their track record
* The Shard - construction cost 243% of the initial budget
* Birmingham New Street - budget of £200m, final cost of £1bn
* 20 Fenchurch Street - ugly as sin and so badly designed it would cook nearby cars on sunny days
* Great Western electrification - current cost stands at three times the initial budget
* Terminal 5 - the most hateful airport terminal I have ever had the misfortune to use that simply doesn't function properly
* White Elephant Stadium - initial budget of £280m, final cost of £430m...and the taxpayer is footing the bill
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
The club's announced the construction partner for WHL2: http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/club-appoints-construction-partner-201115/

...and I'm filled with horror at the thought, given their track record
* The Shard - construction cost 243% of the initial budget
* Birmingham New Street - budget of £200m, final cost of £1bn
* 20 Fenchurch Street - ugly as sin and so badly designed it would cook nearby cars on sunny days
* Great Western electrification - current cost stands at three times the initial budget
* Terminal 5 - the most hateful airport terminal I have ever had the misfortune to use that simply doesn't function properly
* White Elephant Stadium - initial budget of £280m, final cost of £430m...and the taxpayer is footing the bill
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Why are we using them, then? In fact, why is anyone using them? Very strange choice.
 
Lots of public sector "opportunities" taken there. :(

But in ENIC I trust on this one.
I expect Levy to "penalty clause" them out of existence if they even THINK
about doing their usual antics on new WHL.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Why are we using them, then? In fact, why is anyone using them? Very strange choice.
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There is one thing we can be hopeful for: the designers of our new stadium, Populous, have a long history of designing sports stadiums worldwide - which should steer us clear of the "form over function" traps that each of that list fell into.

There are a few potential flags on their CV, though: Wembley, Croke Park, the Aviva Stadium, Soccer City in Johannesburg all went drastically over budget, while the Yankees Stadium and Amway Park went marginally over budget (Yankees Stadium going 30% over, Amway going $10m over its $480m budget)

There's also criticism that their baseball stadiums look like their idea of designing a baseball stadium mainly involves tracing paper, and in terms of their football stadiums it has to be said Rubin Kazan and CD Guadalajara stadiums that look almost exactly the same, just like the Emirates is Wembley without the arch - although on the other hand, of their more recent projects you can't see obvious similarities between Lyon's new stadium, or Southend's, or the Swedish national arena, or the one in Natal (which was one of the few 2014 World Cup stadiums to come in under budget)

Levy's probably working on some weapons grade penalty clauses right now...
 
I am often involved in producing budgets for large projects up to about £200 M and when one produces the first draft (the realistic one) it is likely to come out at about £700 M. Then the directors get hold of it and start to cut. Often the reason is that it would be unacceptable to release realistic figures to the stock exchanges. Alternatively the directors may be a bunch of ultracrepidairians who know very little about an awful lot of things.

Frequently when budgets are released, the savvy ones, i.e. the engineers and senior construction professionals know that there is no chance of acheiving budget and work to more realistic targets. I certainly do.

The problem in the construction industry, and many other industries for that matter is the empowerment of the accountant, aka the advent of 'the management accountant'.

The Civil Engineering handbook of 1963 had it about right, it stated:

There are Professional Staff such as Engineers, Scientists and Geologists and non professional staff such as cleaners, accountants and typists.

A bit of an insult to typists methinks but not too far off the mark.

If you look at a budget as a sort of political manifesto you are not far off the mark.

The secret of minimising construction costs is to have a sound design in place together with comprehensive ground investigation data. Most Contractors price work very tightly in order to win the contract and make there money out of changes, extras, delays and unforseen circumstances. Minimise these and you will minimise cost.

Typical examples are when a contractor asks 'is the ground strong enough to support the crane that will be lifting the trusses. If you cannot answer 'yes' immediately there will be delays whist a ground investigation is undertaken, say a month. Delays like this run into millions in claims.

Furthermore, removing spoil to landfill is super expensive. A sound design must reuse all spoil on site for soft landscaping outside the stadium. Landfill taxes are outrageous.

The secret of procurment for such a project is to have a comprehensive bill of quantities at the design stage and tender it at a fixed price and delivery dates with liquidated damages clauses for delays or sub standard material.

Finally, a good Resident Engineer and a couple of good young engineers as support staff are a must. They must be on site full time not sitting in an office across town making occasional visits. They will cover their salaries a thousand fold.
 
You'd think Tottenham High Road was a World Heritage Site rather than the **** Hole it really is!! <doh>

Probably less 'Nimby' more Compensation-Seekers chasing :emoticon-0164-cash::emoticon-0164-cash::emoticon-0164-cash:....
 
The English Heritage reqts have been met (at cost to the club) .
The complaint is valid, but causally moot. So go complain to EH.
 
'We will be playing away away from WHL in 2017'

Has it been announced where yet? I know MK and Wembley have been discussed together with the Olympic Stadium but as far as I know nothing has been finalised. Please Please Please don't let it be the Emiroids, in the immortal words of the late great Peter Cook, 'we'd have to disinfect it every time 'they' played there.'
 
deedub93 said:
'We will be playing away away from WHL in 2017'

Has it been announced where yet? I know MK and Wembley have been discussed together with the Olympic Stadium but as far as I know nothing has been finalised. Please Please Please don't let it be the Emiroids, in the immortal words of the late great Peter Cook, 'we'd have to disinfect it every time 'they' played there.'
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Discussions are still going on with the FA regarding Wembley.
 
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