New Chapter

Discussion in 'Cardiff City' started by Oldsparkey, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    That may be the case but he'd hardly say anything else whilst he's over there would he?

    Bellamy wants to manage City at some point and would be ideally placed to achieve that if he came back to head up the under 23's. That would be either eventually when Harris's contract falls due, or more immediately if Harris cocks it up.
     
    #21
  2. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    10,065
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    I find all this talk about playing the youngsters a bit unreal.

    If they were good enough they would get a shot regardless of the manager. Management see them in training and playing at their relevant levels where they have not exactly been sparkling in recent years. They make their decisions based on that information and not on the notion that they might do okay if given a senior game.

    How many have impressed when given chances in cup games in recent years?

    Surely there would be nothing worse for a young player than being selected for a Championship game and then having a stinker? I suppose it could be construed as character building but it is a big risk especially if we lose the game due to their errors.

    In recent years, those who have come through, Ramsey, Ledley, Ralls and going back to Gunter to name a few had shone through the ranks and were given opportunities on merit.

    The likes of Declan John and Adam Matthews have moved on and not exactly pulled up trees.

    Looking at it another way, what youngsters who have moved on at a younger age, have performed and shown we were wrong? Matonda is about the only one and he got nicked off us. He has still to show how good he might be.

    To me the problems lie in quality of recruitment and the coaching they receive as they progress. That could be why Legg has left.

    Harris needs to start looking at the Academy at grass roots level and move on from there.
     
    #22
  3. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Agree with that Bluey - you can't just promote half decent players from the academy into the first team just because they're there. These youngsters need to be brought through the various age sections on ability not just because how old they happen to be. If they are good enough you will see that a long time before they get to the under 23 squad.

    They need to be recognised early and coached correctly at a higher level to earn a chance. This is the way to bring the really promising ones on and I feel the rigid structure in the coaching echelon has been a problem.

    At some point though, you've got to make decisions and blood some of these guys if only as bench sitters with the first team matchday squads. It might be a luxury at the moment the way we've been struggling in games to give them that 10 minute cameo toward the end, but they need to be involved with first team games.
     
    #23
    irishbluebird likes this.
  4. aberdude

    aberdude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,867
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    No one is saying be ridiculous with adding youth without thinking about who can step up, surely we are paying for some reward from our academy otherwise what's the point ..... I personally know one lad who is very very good kid and if we don't use him in the future then someone else will get the benefit from our clubs misguided tiny bollox.

    Lots of clubs have benefited from being forced into using the u23s through different reasons..... So maybe if our ban comes into action we either sink or swim .. And I think the Jack's would agree we are better at swimming.

    What can we do when we have zero power over the future of our club...... We just gotta hope one day tan will employ football people at boardroom level that have a forward thinking mindset
     
    #24
    irishbluebird likes this.
  5. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    839
    My point was that it would be good to see some of them at least be given some meaningful league football not a one off cup tie v a 4th division team in January.

    Maybe they’re not good enough but they must have something about them to get into a youth set up in one of the top 30 clubs in the country.

    I give just 2 examples of players who were in our youth set up but were passed over and now are doing really well at championship and indeed national level - Tom Lockyer and Semi Ajayi.

    Ones like Ramsey and Ledley come about once in a generation; who knows there may be one or two in this generation.

    But you never know how good the present youngsters are so I do hope Harris gives some of them a run, and in time more players will come through rather than having to spend stupid money on crocks, rejects, journeymen and duds.
     
    #25
    clingo, Oldsparkey and irishbluebird like this.
  6. aberdude

    aberdude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,867
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Totally agree if some ain't good enough to push our current first team out then we must be doing something drastically wrong at youth coaching levels...... The boy I know who is a friend of my lad is a hell of a player who knows the club better than most and lives amongst cardiff supporting fans so also feels what it means to us....he also travels on local buses with his friends to watch away games and loves the atmosphere we create , so my question is do you prefer this lad getting a chance or do you just buy in an expensive over rated cock end with no feelings for our club or gives a fk for its fan base.....I'd take lower league's playing locals than Prem with Johnny fking English.
     
    #26
  7. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    10,065
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    If the lad is good enough I would totally support him but who is the better judge? Us fans or the club management?

    I want us to play at the highest level possible. As for not playing with Johnny English, the majority of our squad are English and we would have to fall to League 2 to play another Welsh club where, again, the majority of players are English.

    Or do you advocate falling to the level of the League of Wales? <yikes>
     
    #27
  8. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    7,535
    Likes Received:
    1,538
    Its a balancing act to be sure.

    However, I can't believe we don't have 1 welsh qualified home grown player capable of playing at championship level.
    A big waste of investment in the academy if we can't produce 1 every year or two.

    How many go on from us to play professional football down the leagues. A bigger indictment if we can't even produce L1 / L2 standard players.
     
    #28
  9. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    3,898

    It's definitely a question of balance not just nationalism. You'd be hard pushed to find many successful English clubs that turn out exclusively English players - the most successful mainly field "johnny foreigner" players that come at a price.

    We are not in that league at the moment though I'd like to think there were aspirations within the club, especially Tan, to try to emulate at least some moderately successful current Prem sides. We have failed in both aspects and that's down to the recent policies of the owner/chairman/management.

    I've no real idea how many "local lads" the likes of Bournemouth, Palace, and Wolves for instance field on matchdays, but I bet it wouldn't be many if any.

    No point even considering the top boys like the Scousers and Citeh where home grown players are rarer than unicorn ****. Even the likes of Harry Wilson, Phil Foden and even Ampadu can't get a look in at that level and we are nowhere near that.
     
    #29
    BluefromBridgend likes this.
  10. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    10,065
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Ninian made a good point about Tom Lockyer and Semi Ajayi who we had at City but released. They have gone on to be successful elsewhere in the Championship and internationally.

    We had Lockyer for 5 years as a youngster but let him go as he was not considered big enough for a CB. He went on do well at Bristol Rovers before signing for Charlton. Perhaps we can put some pressure on him tomorrow? <whistle>

    Ajayi is a bit different. We got him on a free from Arsenal and developed him while also loaning him out. I think he was unfortunate with us being behind a queue of CB's, Morrison, Manga, Bamba and even Connolly. Naturally the lad wanted first team football so moved to Rotherham (did Warnock sign him there?) where he did well in a poor to average team and is now doing well at West Brom.

    Of the current crop, Coxe and Brown have played in Cup ties and been on the bench for a couple of league games.

    It looks like Bolger and Waite are rated but have not had a chance yet.

    Ramage is a useful keeper on loan at Barry where another good youngster is also playing. Ramage is again unlucky being behind Etheridge, Smithies and Murphy. He was loaned out to get valuable regular game time in an adult league and apaarently is doing well. Don't know anything about the other lad, not even his name. <doh>

    Maybe one or two of these will progress with Coxe the most likely if Harris likes what he sees in training. In reality, depending on the opposition, the FA Cup third round in January is most likely unless we get a bout of injuries.
     
    #30
    ccfcremotesupport likes this.

  11. aberdude

    aberdude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,867
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Not league of Wales no... That's being ott silly..... I want my club giving me what I see as a local club..... Employing and training local football talent and putting out a team you built rather than a team you bought... Kinda like the ajax blueprint.......im not into the buy it now despair later crap for a prem low end place.... I'm up for a team we all have a desire to see do well just like we do the national team...... Be it b a pipe dream but I don't give a fk that's what I see as a club worth supporting
     
    #31
  12. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    aber - there's no question a side doing well stuffed full of locally grown talent is what we'd all like to see but then the reality of that ideal kicks in - it ain't going to happen in the short term - this needs planning and commitment.

    The way to bring through youngsters and give them a chance is to have a competitive first team squad for them to aim at. OK, initially they need to be bought in unless you've got at least a dozen academy recruits to fill the first team squad on day one. If that higher skill target isn't set, then their aspirations are dulled by the limited role models they see in front of them.

    It's down to the management of the club to promote them through a comprehensive functioning academy system, and they will only get better by playing with better players. The problem with City has been just that. We've lurched from crisis to crisis in the recent past, but now we seem to have some serious money behind the club that could make the difference - but hasn't.

    It's all very well seeking short term success, but any form of initial success achieved then needs to be built upon - we've failed to do that twice now.
     
    #32
  13. aberdude

    aberdude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,867
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    I agree dude its not a quick fix im after its the long term future I want with a club run like that of ajax...........ok we will never be an ajax but still putting the foundation down where kids get the best chance of success by giving the best coaches out side of the big boys toys league
     
    #33
  14. Hilts24

    Hilts24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    666
    Lets get our young players names correct. Our young keeper at Barry is George Ratcliffe.<laugh>
     
    #34
  15. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    10,065
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Ooops.

    Close though, began with Ra. <doh>
     
    #35
  16. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    839
    #36
  17. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    10,065
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Spooky. See my post 5.02pm last Thursday. I mentioned Legg leaving in that. Must have seen it somewhere even though it has only just been announced.

    Good luck to him for the future. One of the few to bridge the gap between us and them.
     
    #37

Share This Page