Nathan Redmond's Position

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spacedsaint said:
Saints fans rightly expect to win these games. We also expect to play better than we did against Sunderland. That was a genuine horror show. My point is that reflects a positive change in mentality, rather than a sense of entitlement.
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I agree to some extent. Yes, we should have expected to beat Sunderland. And yes, that is a change in mentality, as five years ago beating Sunderland (or maybe not specifically Sunderland but a smaller/lower-table PL team) would have been a tall order.

My point was-- and it's not necessarily directed at anyone in particular-- is that I think what comes across as "entitlement" is not the expectation, but the reaction when expectations are not met. Teams will suffer dips in form. Even complete seasons that are disappointment at times. I feel like our record of basically besting the prior season's results for a remarkable stretch of time has led to some fans being a bit well... "spoiled" may be too harsh. But we're making it seem easier than it is, so some people have a tendency to forget how hard it is to do well in the PL.

There's nothing wrong with bemoaning how poorly we've played at times this season. But trying to turn 2-3 games into a long term doomsday trajectory for the club is crazy. It doesn't happen too much on this board, but just pop over to Saintsweb and you will see what I mean.
 
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spacedsaint said:
Saints fans rightly expect to win these games. We also expect to play better than we did against Sunderland. That was a genuine horror show. My point is that reflects a positive change in mentality, rather than a sense of entitlement.
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Those words worry me. Expectation is a dangerous thing in sport. And if we're right to expect to win that sounds a bit like a feeling of entitlement. Especially, when we've just changed our manager, the way we play and some key players.

Next thing we'll be sitting in silence when we aren't destroying the lesser teams and booing Saints off when they draw with someone we have the right to expect to beat. And then I'll feel dirty :embarrassed:

"We come from League 1" so I enjoy the fact that we can play a bit crap for 45 mins v Sunderland and Watford and still not lose.
But maybe its just the words we're arguing about because I'm as disappointed as anyone when we don't beat them, I just don't feel anyone has the right to expect us to beat them.
 
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shoot_spiderman said:
Those words worry me. Expectation is a dangerous thing in sport. And if we're right to expect to win that sounds a bit like a feeling of entitlement. Especially, when we've just changed our manager, the way we play and some key players.

Next thing we'll be sitting in silence when we aren't destroying the lesser teams and booing Saints off when they draw with someone we have the right to expect to beat. And then I'll feel dirty :embarrassed:

"We come from League 1" so I enjoy the fact that we can play a bit crap for 45 mins v Sunderland and Watford and still not lose.
But maybe its just the words we're arguing about because I'm as disappointed as anyone when we don't beat them, I just don't feel anyone has the right to expect us to beat them.
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Of course we have the right to expect to beat them. We have the right to be disappointed if we don't, too. We even have the right to boo - and that 45 minutes was as abject and deserving of boos as any 45 I have seen in a long time - even if most of us don't and won't. I was booing my tv when England fell apart against Iceland - because I expect a certain level of performance. That doesn't mean expectation leads to booing, but repeated failure can and will.

It has taken five years to even start beating out the Saints inferiority complex which has plagued us since the 90s, but apparently we should be all about league 1 humility? I don't buy it.
 
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spacedsaint said:
Of course we have the right to expect to beat them. We have the right to be disappointed if we don't, too. We even have the right to boo - and that 45 minutes was as abject and deserving of boos as any 45 I have seen in a long time - even if most of us don't and won't. I was booing my tv when England fell apart against Iceland - because I expect a certain level of performance. That doesn't mean expectation leads to booing, but repeated failure can and will.

It has taken five years to even start beating out the Saints inferiority complex which has plagued us since the 90s, but apparently we should be all about league 1 humility? I don't buy it.
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Repeated failure? I assume you only mean England and not Saints, although your earlier comment about the Saints 45 minutes deserving of boos suggest not. If repeated failure is your measure, then one or even two 45 minutes is not justification for boos or remotely "repeated failure."

We need less "fans" like that.
 
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spacedsaint said:
Of course we have the right to expect to beat them. We have the right to be disappointed if we don't, too. We even have the right to boo - and that 45 minutes was as abject and deserving of boos as any 45 I have seen in a long time - even if most of us don't and won't. I was booing my tv when England fell apart against Iceland - because I expect a certain level of performance. That doesn't mean expectation leads to booing, but repeated failure can and will.

It has taken five years to even start beating out the Saints inferiority complex which has plagued us since the 90s, but apparently we should be all about league 1 humility? I don't buy it.
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At half time on Sunday there was scattered booing in the Northam. Pretty reprehensible, IMO.

Vin
 
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spacedsaint said:
Of course we have the right to expect to beat them. We have the right to be disappointed if we don't, too. We even have the right to boo - and that 45 minutes was as abject and deserving of boos as any 45 I have seen in a long time - even if most of us don't and won't. I was booing my tv when England fell apart against Iceland - because I expect a certain level of performance. That doesn't mean expectation leads to booing, but repeated failure can and will.

It has taken five years to even start beating out the Saints inferiority complex which has plagued us since the 90s, but apparently we should be all about league 1 humility? I don't buy it.
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People have the right to boo, really?

Do I have the right to tell those people to stay the **** away from my football club?
 
spacedsaint said:
Of course we have the right to expect to beat them. We have the right to be disappointed if we don't, too. We even have the right to boo - and that 45 minutes was as abject and deserving of boos as any 45 I have seen in a long time - even if most of us don't and won't. I was booing my tv when England fell apart against Iceland - because I expect a certain level of performance. That doesn't mean expectation leads to booing, but repeated failure can and will.

It has taken five years to even start beating out the Saints inferiority complex which has plagued us since the 90s, but apparently we should be all about league 1 humility? I don't buy it.
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I both like & hate your reply, but I have to go for a walk in the Dorset Countryside now :emoticon-0103-cool: which may help me in my response :emoticon-0138-think
 
spacedsaint said:
Of course we have the right to expect to beat them. We have the right to be disappointed if we don't, too. We even have the right to boo - and that 45 minutes was as abject and deserving of boos as any 45 I have seen in a long time - even if most of us don't and won't. I was booing my tv when England fell apart against Iceland - because I expect a certain level of performance. That doesn't mean expectation leads to booing, but repeated failure can and will.

It has taken five years to even start beating out the Saints inferiority complex which has plagued us since the 90s, but apparently we should be all about league 1 humility? I don't buy it.
Click to expand...

Booing your TV is just weird!
 
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