My thoughts

LFT

LFT

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2011
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Don't post too often on here, but I read other posts often and thought I'd share my thoughts with you on the game yesterday and the future.

Thought it was a decent performance yesterday and we knocked the ball about nicely at times, I thought in particular Catts and Westwood were superb. I'm glad we went 4-4-2 and you can see the team is more confident with this formation and surely even Bruce must now see that.

I think it's important now to try and get a settled starting eleven. I know it's not that easy because of injuries but you can see the benefit of playing the same eleven players from our neighbours up the road, they have a solid back four. Two centre mids who work well together and two big front men. They play to their strengths, and have great team spirit and although they've had a large portion of good fortune along the way, imo they probably deserve to be where they are.

I would keep the defence that played yesterday for the next game, apart from a few dodgy set plays they kept Hernandez and welbecks quiet throughout the match. O'Shea for me hasn't really cut it yet, yes he has experience and is better in the air then Bardsley or ricco but doesn't have the pace anymore and his touch and distribution hasn't been great.

I think without injuries or suspensions it should be larsson on the right sess on the left, but the toughest decision is in the middle, we have five decent centre mids all vying for a place, I feel Vaughan and Colback are too similar to play together ( decent range of passing and a bit of pace ) and Meyler and Catts are too similar and then there's Gardner to fit in the equation as well, I think if all were fit and on top form I'd probably go for Meyler and Gardner as it has a nice balance to it,

Up top there's not much choice but to go for Bendybob and Ji with Noble,Lynch, Cook and Tounkara fighting it out for a place on the bench (this is presuming CW is out for a while).

This is the real test for Bruce in the next 4 games and for me at least two wins is a must.

Well done if you read all the way through that and I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
 
Think hit the nail on the head. Can't recall us having a settled team since before the Keane era!
As for the midfield problem I don't honestly know. Each of those players have had equal good and poor performances so I don't who I'd choose over the other. I think will continue to revolve the two in the middle depending on opposition. Only hope he makes the right choice.
 
Agree with most of it mate.
The thing to me is them up the road are going into matches with their manager setting up to play to win.
Too often we set up to not lose, which puts us on the backfoot.
Poor Wickham I feel for the lad, but I don't think he was in Bruce's immediate long term plans.
(Going by Bruce's previous comments)

Hopefully Ji and Bendtner can gel.
Ji looks to have the skill to cope, he just needs more experience.
Oh and please Steve realise Sess isn't a striker. <ok>
 
Real shame larrsons out of next game, he's been vital for us, and it means we will probably play Elmo, who is just a headless chicken to me, I'd rather stick Sess on the right and give that young Irish lad a runout on the left (McClean or summat?)
 
I'd like to see Catts and Meyler in the middle - Colback hasn't done much in the last 2-3 games for me and I'd give Gardner a chance ...BUT KEEP ELMO OFF THE FIELD!!!
 
Like every fan I desperately want the club to succeed and prosper.

Unfortunately, we have a very poor manager imo, who has not got what it takes to set the club up for anything like even moderate success. He talks about time for managers and that gelling players is vital and all the usual rhetoric (complete bollocks is another way of putting it) you expect from a manager who has been failing badly for the best part of 10 months now, trying desperately to save a job he simply isn't worthy of having.

When you see how Pardew, with far less time, settled boardroom and most importantly money to spend, has worked with his allotted hand, you see through that bollocks immediately. Only managers with no ideas, planning and foresight require lots of time to work their stuff. Half decent ones can get their team sorted and the players required in quickly and make an impression. If Bruce was to remain our manager for the next 20 years, with a pot of money and a total free hand, the best he would achieve is hovering around the relegation spots then trying desperately to finish near 10th place.

A new manager, without any of the lame excuses every sad sorry week, would have a much better success imo here at the SOL. I want MoN, a man who's CV is bettered by very few over the past 10 years of so outside the top 4 or 5 clubs. he is a trophy winner and a man who can and has finished in the top 6 for 3 years on the trot with Villa. He won 2 cups at unfashionable Leicester City and that would be like a lottery win for us as SAFC fans.

If not MoN, then someone - to be honest its almost getting to the ANYONE other than Bruce stage for me - has to be brought in as soon as possible because we ARE in a relegation scrap and if we cant beat Fulham, Wigan and Blackburn at home and nick a point at Wolves, then we are seriously ****ed this season.

I have absolutely no faith that we will get anything like 10 points from the next 4 games and I dare bet now that the best Bruce will deliver will be 7 (the very best at that) and that simply will not be good enough to keep us out of the bottom 3 imo, by the time we play Spurs (a) in December.

If we are bottom 3 at Christmas then I would expect the fans to at last wake up from this apathetic coma they are in and accept we are in big, big trouble before its too late.
 
I'm not Bruces biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but I think we all need to accept we are stuck with him for now, Short will not sack unless the situation turns absolutely dire, which I don't think it will.

Would I prefer Mon? Probably but I'm still not convinced he'd be doing much better than Bruce and he does have a tendency to throw his toys out the pram.

From what I've seen of us so far this season I think Bruce will do enough to keep his job until the summer, he's taken us as far as he can imo he's stabilised us as a premier league team and maybe even a top half one at that. But next summer will be the time for him to leave.
 
Quillips said:
I'm not Bruces biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but I think we all need to accept we are stuck with him for now, Short will not sack unless the situation turns absolutely dire, which I don't think it will.

Would I prefer Mon? Probably but I'm still not convinced he'd be doing much better than Bruce and he does have a tendency to throw his toys out the pram.

From what I've seen of us so far this season I think Bruce will do enough to keep his job until the summer, he's taken us as far as he can imo he's stabilised us as a premier league team and maybe even a top half one at that. But next summer will be the time for him to leave.
Click to expand...

2 points.

1) We are 1 point above relegation now? When do you suggest it turns dire then? Bottom 3? We are up to our eyeballs in **** kidda and I dont see how thats going to get better under Bruce.

2) Can we dispel this urban Myth once and for all about MoN. He turned down job offers when he was at Wickham Wanderers and Norwich, top jobs as well, because he was contracted and said he would never leave a club to join another one while under contract. He is fearlessly loyal to the clubs he manages. He left Villa, not for another job but on a matter of principal. He sad Lerner had promised him certain things which he then reneged on and as a matter of principal, he walked out of the job. He has operated with minimal funds at Norwich, Leicester and Celtic and yet still won trophies at 2 of them. He got Villa from the brink of relegation, to 3 consecutive top 6 finishes and built a team EVERY pundit and commentator said was the club most likely to break the then big 4 stranglehold on the EPL.

His CV, if he was to join us, would be the absolute best of any manager in the clubs history since 1879, of a newly appointed manager and would immediately imo have a positive effect for the second half of the season. If he was appointed before the Fulham game, I truly believe we would easily win all 3 home fixtures we are talking about and at least get the draw at Wolves. He organises and sets his teams up to get results and as our manager, I could once again get enthusiastic about our future.

Bruce will never amount to anything other than a bottom half to relegation fringe manager at our club, if he were to remain another 20 years and be given as much money as he wanted. He simply is a small town club football manager and no amount of time or money will change that.
 
No, my sad mentally challenged craa chum, an ageing horses festering, rancid arse and your face would make far better bed fellows.
 
Very good OP and I agree with it all. I think its vital we stick with the back 4 because whatever we think of them only by keeping them together will they improve, I also think they looked to have a lot of confidence in Westwood.

Up front we dont have a lot of choice, Sess and Bendtner must be a non starter so Bendy and Ji it is.

The fulham game is a concern because I think Larsson will be a big miss, whateve we may think we will see Elmo on the right, unless. I think Bruce has a big problem in midfield, Catts did well, Sess is an automatic starter but I think he likes Vaughan and Meyler so who knows.

Now for my fear, if O'Shea is fit I can see Bruce wanting to play him and I dont think he will change the back 4, my fear is he uses O'Shea in midfield, dont think he is up to it these days.
 
The next 4 games 3 wins is a must mate we are again hovering just above the drop zone (not apocalyptic yet though apparently), the home games need to be won. Agree we need a settled team it was shown by Birmingham 2 years ago what a settled team can do and as you say the barcodes this season, not down to luck but good team work and a manager who isn't scared of going for it.
However Bruce seems to favour tinkering over settled or, he just doesn't know his best team yet. We are picking up injuries now and the suspensions will kick in soon so a settled team is something we won't see for a while yet can't blame Bruce for that. Agree the defence were good on Saturday along with Catts and Westwood but, again it's the stupid free kicks given away around the box and the set pieces from the opposition in general that did for us on Saturday.
 
Cattermole the player who kept giving away needless fouls?

At least you show sense later in your post to say you'd have Meyler in above Catts

I thought Meyler was superb when he came on and is just at another level compared to the rest of our very average centre mids...

Bruce is a disgrace and should be sacked immediately. Man Utd were very poor and we should have at least have had a point!
 
For me, the primary factor that determines whether a manager should be sacked or not is the quality of the team that is assembled. The second factor is the selection of formations along with tactics and strategy. The third factor is the strength of the team spirit.

Once again, we have entered into a premier league campaign with three strikers. One of which is a loan and two of which had to be "protected for their own good" according to Bruce. So, because Bruce chose to sign two players that needed protection for their own good, the fans that had bought into Sir Niall's dream have been served up a 4-5-1 formation for a full 25% of the entire season. A formation that has left us teetering upon the verge of a relegation position with a grand total of 10 points from 11 games. Is it any suprise a few of those working class supporters are sitting in the pub, perhaps drowning their sorrows?

Now we find ourselves faced with the prospect of having one of our three stikers sidelined for a substantial length of time (unconfirmed, so let us hope that Wickham is ok) however if Wickham has picked up a serious injury we are left with two strikers. What if one of either Ji or Bendtner is injured? Well, its back to the good old 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 formation.

Therefore the first question we ought to be asking is... Who made the decision to start the season with three strikers and two of which that had to be "protected for their own good"?

Due to whomever made the decision to start the season with three strikers two of which were effectively unplayable according to Bruce, we have been restricted to the range of formations we are capable of placing upon the pitch. 25% of the season has now expired and we sit one point above a relegation position.

A decision maker at the club also chose to sell Ferdinand and hence leave the squad with three 'quality' centrebacks, well, atleast until Bramble was suspended. Although I could call into question the ability to identify the type of characters that are potentially trouble as opposed to good solid pro's as being a very important part of man management. Ferdinand the club man who commits time to charitable work, a player that is also available to cover both left and right back in addition to centreback, or Bramble....

What is this love affair of the number three? Why only three centrebacks, why only three strikers? Who is making these decisions? Throughout the course of a season there will always be injuries and suspensions and therefore, all clubs with any level of aspiration to retain their status within the premier league should ALWAYS ensure that there are four players available for, centre half, midfield and the strikers. The only area that is adequately covered is the centre of midfield. Although the only central midfielder capable of scoring goals is sitting upon the bench due to being little more that a six million championship plodder whose general deficiences outweigh his solitary season of goal scoring exploits.

Just to put this into perspective, if Bendtner is injured we could see a 4-5-1 with an inexperienced Ji or a 4-4-2 with Tounkara/Ji, quite mouthwatering. What if Brown is injured? We could be watching a Turner/Nosworthy partnership, quite mouthwatering. What if Bendtner and Brown are injured at the same time? Well, the depth of the squad is revealed to all and sundry, including the manager.

So we can see that the quality of the squad that Bruce assembled has some major flaws and flaws that have a genuine potential to provide relegation. The only factor that is yet to reveal itself as being a negative is the spirit of the team.

The spirit is still strong and that in itself is a 'good sign'. However is a strong team spirit enough to maintain premier league status? To answer that question it may be prudent to ask another question... If you assembled a team of kickers from the championship, players that would play their heart out yet were unable to compete at the level of standard required, what would be the probable outcome? Champions league? Europa league? Or a longstanding battle against relegation?

Thus far, the first two factors suggest that Bruce is still making the wrong decisions (a whole thirteen years after becoming a manager) and if we find ourselves in the bottom six or lower come christmas we may well see the spirit of the team becoming oppressed as the realisation dawns upon the squad that they are being managed by Steve Bruce. A manager with a proven track record of relegation, a manager with a consistently proven record of serious injuries (over-training leading to weakness). A manager that has won nothing, walked out of two clubs and dismissed from another. The moment of realisation may well be just around the corner...
 
to be fair we have 4 CBs:

Oshea, Brown, Turner, Bramble (at start of season) are all good centre backs. Bramble is out (dont think he will be coming back imo), which means we have Turner, Oshea and Brown who can play CB.

As for strikers, yes we have 3 but Bruce planned around Gyan being here. the ****er pissed off for $$$ after telling Bruce he will be staying. Yes we could have forced him to stay, but what is point in that? Have a unhappy player at the club? Ask Tevez how he is feeling at the moment...

What is Bruce's record of injuries - outside of SAFC?

He walked from Wigan cos the chairman was selling all his best players, and they couldnt hope to compete financially. before that, wigan were doing well with the players Bruce had assembled.
 
John O'Shea was brought in to play right back as a replacement for Onuoha, although is capable of playing centre half. I suggest that there should always be four out and out centre backs available, no if's, no buts.

To bring in a player for right back and depend upon that player as a fourth choice centre back can bring about the situation we now find ourselves in. Perhaps you disagree that using a player signed as a right back as a fourth choice centre half doesn't create the possibility to bring about a situation where the squad becomes 'stretched'. If you do disagree then I assume you are perfectly happy with the depth of our squad today?
 
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