He did have some success in South America before he went to Spain, but I think he has a lot to do too. However, I think Moyes has more to do at United. We have been predicting United unravelling for years now, and that has only been prevented by whatever deal Fergie made with Satan for his soul. I just can't see Moyes buying enough talent in the window to replace all of the players that even the United fans don't think are good enough any more. And even if he does, buying and building a new team is something entirely new to him. In some ways, Moyes to Chelsea and Mourniho to United would have made more sense.
Only been reading the comments on this thread now, and again like with Higuain thread, it's gone wildly off-topic. The 'beef' in the last two pages appear to be about some tags, which have now been removed, so please let's get this thread back on topic.
On Pelligrini, I think he is an excellent coach but the points about him potentially failing to adapt to a new league are valid. One thing is for sure, he is a massive upgrade on Mancini, who for me did a terrible job at City last season.
Mancini was dining out on that league win and did nothing to adapt to defending their title. He made some pretty fundamental tactical errors last season and I think he deserved to go. I like Pelligrini and I think he'll do well, eventually. But I think it's going to take him a while to adapt to the PL
With Mancini the rumours of his inability to deal with the players on a personal basis were doing the rounds even before the league win (I remember Robbie Savage angrily defending his mate Roberto on Five Live a few years ago). If this was the case then if Pellegrini can bridge the gap then you'd think he'd stand a chance of being successful. I'm intrigued to see how City differ with him in charge.
I'd hope not. There are lines which shouldn't be crossed. ack on topic, I think IF Pellegrini gets City on track quick enough they'll be champions. If not City, Chavski, us (depending on some signings) and United (who will most likely be weaker) will all be challenging
How does one become a Super Mod. The ban tool would be quite useful in dealing with those who disagr...I mean those who stir up trouble.
You have to spend forty days and forty nights in solitary confinement, surviving on nothing but Mick's belly button fluff
After City won the league overwhelming opinion was that they would run away with the tile the next season. They only finished 5 points ahead of us. If we had beaten them at home then we would have been ahead of them. Whatever you think about the details of that game, it was just one bad home result and without it we would have finished in second place. BTW, that is why I'm mystified at people thinking we are "Miles away" from anyone other than United. Anyway, my view on last season was that City had got by with player of the season performances from Kompany and Yaya Toure and that, they were going to struggle to stay fit and repeat their heroics. Sure enough they both got injured for a while and their form dropped just a little. This is why I am concerned for Spurs and Bale. He is a little bit of a one-trick pony, it is a good trick, but you have to think that teams are going to learn to keep him off his left foot. Anyway, losing Tevez is going to be a big deal. 11 goals and 13 assists in the league may not seem like much but a lot of them were in the big games. And Yaya and Kompany are one year older. Pelligrini has his work cut out because his home grown players are very average and they will be expensive to upgrade.
Even the die hard uber-positive Arsenal fans will admit that the mood on these forums is worse during the transfer Window(particularly this year). This is kinda sad because most the other big teams are full of optimism. Even with the boards announcement that we have money available, I think most fans are wary that Wenger may decide against brining in any top class additions. There's a high chance we wont get the additions we need. I like to stay positive and think Wenger will try and sign someone of Higuain or Suarez's class but I've seen enough to know Wenger does'nt really want to do this. He would be happier signing young potentially world class players and waiting for them to develope.
It always make me laugh when a statement like this is made, and let me try and tell you why Bear is absolutely correct, AND why this shouldn't be considered a negative statement against the club or Wenger, even if it was intended as such. First of all, with 3 clubs richer than us in England and many more clubs with smaller chance of winning a trophy than us, the probability of us winning a domestic trophy is less than 100%. In other words, no matter who we sign, It is more probable that we will not win, than we will win. If you know about probability then you will know that even though United and Chelsea HAVE beaten the odds and had more trophy-winning years than barren years recently, this doesn't mean that the chance of them winning was greater than not. You will also know, that every year, the chance is the same based on just that year. The fact that we did not win the previous year, or for 8 previous years, does not change the odds. So Bear is absolutely right. There is a high chance of us not signing the players we need to win a trophy. No matter who was signing them, no matter how much was spent, and no matter which players we sign.
Although that statement is absolutely true. It's irrelevant to the point I was making. As an Arsenal fan there is always the possibility that Wenger will decide against fixing an immediate issue with the squad. Instead he will rely on youth to plug the gaps over time. As great a manager as Wenger is, In my opinion the guy has been given 'too much' freedom at this club and our lack of 'high profile' signings is not merely due to financial restrictions. It's a double edged sword though because Wengers strengths have kept us amongst the TOP clubs but his distaste for spendature has also hindered us from pushing on to the level we were capable of reaching. I am of the belief that our managers conservative approach has almost certainly cost us trophies. These sort of posts are tricky because we tend to make sweeping statements when really the issues are a little more complex. But I dont have the time or inclination to write an essay right now.
That's a fair point, and I also appreciate that sometimes these sorts of comments come across as sweeping statements, when in fact most of us can back up and illustrate what we're saying, it's just not really the nature of the forum to write endless essays to get a short point across. The point about Wenger being too conservative though, I would argue that it's the board who have been too conservative. Remember all of the players that have left recently in acrimonious circumstance, Wenger wanted to keep and was prepared to gamble on them by forcing them to stay, the board sanctioned their sales. I also think Wenger has been following the board's line over the last 8 years, by sticking to their spending plan, even when they have come out and said that we could buy a £30m player if we wanted. This though is largely history now, the funds are there and we need to strengthen, so the word of the board and the manager are under scrutiny this summer
No, I don't expect you to. But you are also missing my point. Just because Wenger has employed youth and not won, doesn't mean that he made the wrong moves. Just as winning would not prove that he made the best moves. This season he could sign Higuain, Fellaini, and Suarez and they could play like **** keeping out three young players that might have won us the championship. I just don't buy this grand conspiracy that the board and Wenger are in cahoots to save money and not win, and doesn't want to improve the squad out of choice. It doesn't make any logical sense. You seem to thing that not winning somehow proves something and requires a complex conspiracy theory to explain. I was just pointing out that not winning a trophy for 8 years, does not require any more explanation than if you tossed a coin 5 times and it came up heads all 5 times. And on the sixth toss you would still only have a 50% chance of it coming up tails.
Football is not roulette. More often than not the best team wins the league. There's no grand conspiracy here Wenger does'nt WANT to play the game the same way everyone else does. In fact pay attention to the things he actually says and it's clear he often chooses against buying an immediate solution in favour of a cheaper (often younger)alternative. This approach may well have worked had it not been for player sales... but we knew they were going to happen. Wenger knew. To some extent they were even planed. The board have admitted this: IG at the last Q & A. “I know my answers are usually too long so I’ll try to shorten them this time! The landscape has changed significantly in the last decade and again in the last few years, but we have a vision not to put our football club into the pockets of a wealthy owner. The key for us is to be able to generate enough resources to be able to compete. Players sales were factored into this plan." Now i'm not saying he intended to loose RVP but player sales have been factored in to our long term plan. Again there's many issues to discuss here (wage structure playing a part in players actually wanting to leave - again in the last Q&A Gazidis hinted that they have decided move away from 'Wenger's flat wage structure') To put it simply there are many reasons for our lack of spending in recent Seasons and Wengers part is just as large as the boards. Also just google 'Wenger' and 'spending' - and see how many quotes you can find that illustrate my point. He dislikes the big spending philosophy employed by most the worlds biggest clubs and 'chooses' to go a different way himself.
Saying the best team in the league always wins is a self-confirming statement, because by definition, the winner of the league is the best team in the league. But it is not necessarily the most skillful team, or the ones that are paid the most, or the ones that were considered the best at the start of the season, or the ones that were the most expensive to buy. You might as well say that the team that wins the league is the champion; it is a meaningless statement. There is only one reason for our lack of spending over the last 10 seasons and that is a lack of money to spend. As for your second point, I really don't understand how any Arsenal fan could possibly still misunderstand the philosophy of the club so magnificently. It has been explained in painfully intricate detail, so many times, but I'll do it (yet) again briefly. The money has been saved to invest in the stadium project and in trying to financially better the club in order to be on a more equal financial footing with the richer clubs. The philosophy is entirely designed to raise the money in order to spend on players. You have a valid point on the wage structure, and I agree that it was a mistake. I don't know how much it cost us as a club, and I don't know enough about club finances to even speculate. If you want to argue that Wenger should be sacked over the wage structure, then go for it. I think you have a case, as long as it was his doing.
You are arguing Bear's points well but you are arguing the technicalities of his wording far more than any of his actual points. It mostly seems you are arguing for the sake of it. I empathise with Bear's point and my biggest complaint has been progress. I think Wenger has done a brilliant job of guiding and keeping us competitive over these barren years where investment in Infrastructure has been the priority. That being said every year the financial situation has improved but there has been no progress on the pitch. The youngsters project is 8 years in the making and I would have been happy to continue if we were at least on an upward trend. We have stagnated as a club and the continuing of the said policy would only keep us there. That is why many of us have advocated the purchasing of more experienced players not because we suddenly believe we will win everything but because the current system has proven to not be moving forward. Of course we idolise about the buying of £50mn WC players but that is not a realistic solution. Most of us have been advocating the purchase of decent players in the 15-20mn bracket something the club could have afforded to do in the last 5 years. Imagine if we had done that we would probably be further along in our development as a football club and probably held on to some of the stars we lost.
