Moyes did well at everton.... however he took the team with the 8th highest spending and wage bill to an average of 8th. Hardly mesmerizing is it? Using perspective it was a good job but not a great one.
You and others claim Fergie finished 13th his first year. He finished 2nd. I was just pointing out the 'Fergie finished 13th' myth is one of the many #moyesmyths currently doing the rounds. more are listed above and this thread is a great example of how utterly pointless they are. I could ask you what your point is as well. Why the need to defend the indefensible?
Why did you quote my post though? It wasn't talking about Fergie finishing 13th. But seeing as you raised the point, so what if it wasn't in his first season. He finished 7th a couple of times, 11th and 13th. Or is there some rule that UIR has made whereby if you finish 7th in your first season in charge it's a sackable offence but if you do it in your 3rd season or finish 13th in your 4th season you're OK. So who decides one is good and the other is bad? You mate? Sorry mate but you seem to make the rules up as you go along. I bet if this forum had existed at the time you'd be saying the EXACT same thing about Fergie.
I doubt it but ok. If you cant see the difference between Moyes and Fergie and the jobs they have taken on then we need not continue this conversation any longer as it is wasting both our time. In 1986 United were not the reigning champions or a side who had dominated for 2 decades. We were not a club worth £2-3billion and were not the most successful club in English football history.
I completely agree he's underachieved badly this season. But that, imo, is largely down to a lack of preparation (by him and the club as a whole), and a failure to understand the scale of the challenge. It doesn't mean he's going to fail next season, and I'm personally willing to give him until October or November to see if he can hit the ground running and show he's up to the task. That said, I won't be shedding many tears if he goes in the summer, as long as we get a good replacement who is given the time and support to actually bring in the players he wants.
I dont see why we have to give him time. I just dont see the point. If he ****s it again then we change manager mid season and more issues are potentially created. Its Moyes fault if he thought it would be a breeze. Grossly unprofessional and an insult to United as a whole. I would rather say "thanks dave, you tried" and get a new manager ( Klopp and £150million or van Gaal and £50million ) and go from there.
I've never really been pro or anti - I've always taken the view that he has one of the toughest jobs in football, and I'll judge him based on how he performs. This season he hasn't impressed, and I'm leaning against him staying long term, but he still has a chance to turn it around imo. And if Klopp or van Gaal is no better, then what? Ditch them after one season too? Changing manager mid season isn't the greatest idea, but if we start trying to get a new manager in the summer then we'll waste half the transfer window, and the new guy will have very little time after the WC to work with the squad or bring in players, which could be an even bigger disaster if we're losing Vidic, Evra, Rio, Giggs and potentially more.
Fine. Fergie finished 2nd first year, not 13th. Rodger's finished 7th his first year and now he's leading. I do stand by the rest of what I say though. The squad was good, but did need refurbishment- and Moyes has historically done well in the PL with a lesser budget. He CAN do better than 7th- I think he is fully capable of regulary ending in top 4... but he's probably not good enough to be a regular silverware winner.
I would give Klopp more time. Nothing more than hes not had 11 years PL experience. van Gaal would always be a stop gap. A foundation layer if you will. Ideal situation.... van Gaal for a year or 2 to build the foundations and then Klopp for years and years.
With Pelli looking a bit **** himself maybe Moyes wont have to tracvel far for his next job. You did once hire Mark Hughes after all.
Ofcourse I can see the difference, but you keep moving the conversation on everytime someone picks you up on a point. You've said Fergie finished 2nd in his first season. Would you also accept he did finish 7th, 11th and 13th BEFORE his period of success and those decades of dominance you mention? You keep going on about a title winning side, but would you also accept that the title winning squad of 2013 was a shadow of the squad of 2007 or 2008? So it's a bit disingenuous to simply say "it's a title winning side". One was in its ascendancy and the other in some degree of decline. By the way, the problem with talking about this with you UIR is that I'm not a big defender of Moyes (he has fcked up on and off the pitch at times) but your views are so extreme that anyone arguing against you, you think has a hard on for Moyes. I honestly don't, but as others have said, some of the fck ups he's made reflect a man on a learning curve (naive mistakes) at a club bigger than what he's had to deal with in the past. You quote Fergie not inheriting a successful club, sometimes it's easier that way bcos you can come in and put your own stamp on things with fewer immediate expectations and less egos at the club.
The best side in the league were Leeds by a mile in 74 when Paisley took over. Liverpool were miles behind Bayern Munich in 74, they were eliminated comfortably by Red Star Belgrade in the second phase of the European Cup, struggling past a side in Luxembourg in the first round, hardly 'close to the best in Europe'. In the 70s, in general, titles were won with a lower points total and win percentage. Hence, Liverpool came second under Paisley in 74/5, with a win ratio that would only get them 8th or 9th this season
Of course I accept it. Its there in the history books but the issue I have is moyes and Fergie are different people in different eras with very different mentalities. You say my views are extreme but thats exactly how I feel about tge many pro moyes views given everyday. Fergies and busbys come around every few decades. In between you have to make do being just like every other club. Sometimes a manager just doesnt cut it. Sure you coyld give him time but guess what? Only one or 2 a century will meet the grade. That how it is. So what do you do? Look at the results only and hire/fire only on that criteria? I assume most of you believe thats what I think. You would be wrong. For me its about more. Moyes could have had better results this season but if the performances remained the same and the feel of the club was the same, I would still want him replaced. Its about more than the number of w.l.d we pick up. Weve played like ****, much worse thatln Fergie did towards the end. Its been a very long time since I saw a united side give up but we have, many times this season. What the f**k is that about. How bad must things have got for united to juat give up in games. Before theres games where we are 3 goals down with minutes to go but we still try to attack. The lack of fight from moyes. Hes just too nice. The best managers are ****s. Fergie certainly was. Moyes tried to be but it just made him look a dick. Calling playings not good enough and playing down our quality. We were league champions. Irrespective of how good others were (another myth) we won one of europes best and most difficult leagues by a distance. Were Barcelona poor when they won la liga under Pep because the rest were poor (la liga wasnt all that) or bayern this season. We are better than he claims. Nobody can disagree with that. Why are rivals laughing? Because united are failing or because moyes has managed to take it all and mess it up big time... I laughed at liverpool for both under Woy but it was the fact they had Woy that made it even better. Hilarious wasn't it? Thats what they think about us now. You know what, moyes could well stay a while yet. Pick up a 4th place or 2 and a cup. Wouldnt that be lovely. All this while better options are out there and attainable. Why would we want to settle? Are we not one of footballs elite clubs. A massive institution of global proportions? What other comparable company/sports clubs settles? Is that what its about? Being different just to score moral points? f**k that.
I feel pretty sure he doesn`t tell them to mis-place passes, mis-control balls, fail to track back when the other team attack, let the man they are supposed to be marking go completely free in the area at corners or miss easy goals they would normally put away.
That bit I've highlighted...the word you're looking for is "winners". Agree 100% they don't come around often and as you've said 1-2 a century. So what do you do mate, wait a 100 years? You have to try and find someone in the rough who maybe can rise to the challenge. The scousers will probably disagree, but I look at Rodgers on the verge of a league title, and I think if he can do it, why not Moyes? I look at the state of Chelsea and City and I truly believe this league is there for the taking FOR UNITED in the coming seasons. Will Moyes be good enough, fck knows. He may just win us a bit of silverware and get us top 4 but... ke sara sara (you're probably old enough to remember that chant mate) that's football but we're a great club and we'll be back. As I've said before, it's not Moyes, it's the position of manager I respect regardless of who it is and I'll back him while he's in the job while being critical of him also when needed.
Yep, Fergie really took us backwards after his first season, we should have got rid while we had the chance
I fully agree the league is there for the taking. It was this season too. On rodgers. I think hes much more positive than Moyes and thats part of the reason liverpool have been so good. He was much the same at Swansea in that he was very forward thinking. I dont know how good he will turn out but hes by far the beat young British manager around right now. About to achieve the best finish by a brit since Dalglish won the title with Blackburn if we dont count Fergie. Moyes lacks that positive outlook. Hes reserved and cautious. You could say Jose is but thats not really true imo.
