Moving on.

[PowerSpurs]

Most of the times it did in my opinion. Harry knew/ knows that for some reason, we can't defend as a unit like Chelsea/ Stoke etc so our best form of defence is trying to attack and keep the opposition pinned back.

I'd love to win things too and I hope AVB is the man to do it but the decisions he's made against Norwich and Southampton (can probably name others but can't be ars*d) have been poor. At Southampton he tried shutting up shop at 60 mins by bringing Jake on, leaving Southampton to attack for a good 25/ 30 mins and we were lucky in the end to leave with 3 points. Then against Norwich he made a stupid sub by bringing on Jan into CM which allowed them to come forward more as Carroll was having a tidy game making forward passes and contributing to attacks, Jan was arguably at fault for both goals too and we ended up losing a game that we controlled with ease. With all due respect, both these teams are the type we should be beating comfortably without the need to sit back and grind out a win.

What's the point in having a plan B if it's not effective?

I am mostly in agreement with this, SoS, but a proper manager (which I hope AVB is) would sort out our weaknesses so that we didn't just have one plan. When you introduce a new way of playing it is not likely to work briliantly on Day 1, especially when you don't have your best players available but if you alter it too much to suit circumstances it won't work so well in the long run. Personally I think starting with Sandro and Dembele with Parker in the wings when we want to go more defensive would work fine. Whereas Sandro and Thudd with Livermore in the wings is a lot weaker. But I still think it is right to play the same system whatever the personnel so that the players can get used to it. We need to use the next transfer window to make the squad more suitable as well. But with Kaboul, BAE, Parker, Dembele and Ade back and Walker, Sig and Dempsey performing more like they did last season we have a very good chance of hanging on to fourth or better and nicking one of the cups.

 

[O.Spurcat]

Hudd has been at the centre of a few of the 'silly' goals being scored by the oppo. Hes well off form. Dempsey isnt reacting well to not being a big fish in a small pond.

Ive backed AVB all the way and still will....this is still part of his learning curve.


The subs are baffling me also. I did not follow AVB much whilst at Porto. Only watched the matches televised for the Europa and his teams seemed quite more flexible and dynamic, compared to what we are seeing at Spurs. I hope in January and then the summer he gets to bring in the players he needs because i believe he can take us places. We are not going to win every match and his appointment cant be questioned everytime we screw it up. I think he is trying to put square pegs in round holes due to his squad limitation. over the 14 or so games we have played i think hes done great.

Our spine is missing in the team with Kab,Parker,Ade out..this cant be overlooked.

"Trying to put square pegs in round holes" is not the sign of a top notch coach. A top coach will adapt his formation and tactics to suit the players he has available. I accept the unavailabilty of certain players has not helped, but to say AVB has "done great" is an exaggeration because if you analyse all games in all compettions, then I reckon we have fallen below expectations in at least 50% of them - WBA at home, Norwich at home, Chelsea at home, Newcastle away, Lazio at home, Maribor away and last night. That's 7 games where we should have been good enough and strong enough to get better results than we did.

The points on the board may look decent enough as we sit in 4th place, but that doesn't tell the full story or the bigger picture does it ??

 

[Spurlock]

Afternoon Spurcat.

i think he has done great in the sense that the majority either wanted or expected him to fall flat on his arse. He has shown that he can do a job...so im relieved that AVB is doing a job for us.

A top coach will adapt his formation to suit the players available but that doesnt leave us much apart from a team full of defenders and defensive mids with an off form Dempsey and Sig to provide the attacking options through the centre. Maybe AVB sees this and that is why we see Falque getting a run in.

i dont think the points on the table tell the story for any team at this stage and alot of teams at the top have issues.


By no means are AVB's tactics perfect as you have highlighted..however i feel the players have something to do with that also.

 

[Roo]

Hi spurcat

does he play the same formation so the players can get used to it, like you say?

or

does he change it up, as a top coach would adapt the formation to suit the players he has available, as you also say?

it's difficult.

I guess this is why a few of us are now agreeing that against wigan we should try something different. we've played 13 games (??) or so this season and as you've mentioned, there's been a fair few where we've been below par. It could be said that the formation has had sufficient time and we need something fresh and unpredictable, especially whilst certain players are out?

or, does that ruin all the hard work that's gone into this style of play, so far? but on the other hand, certain players have been under performing for a few weeks....

it's a tough one. I wouldn't want to be making the decisions, I know that for sure.

January is going to be an interesting time for us. it could be the most important window of the last 2 seasons or so. The new manager needs backing in every way possible to make this a success.

I know it's early days, but by Jan, we're either going to have clicked with this style of play and be a fluent tottenham, or, we're going to need reinforcements.

loads of factors will come into play as the season goes on, such as niggling injuries, travelling, cold weather etc etc and the squad needs to be deep. if we want a top 4 finish, we're going to need to strengthen, IMO.

sorry if that sounds negative, it's not supposed to be.

 

[O.Spurcat]

.Spurlock.

You're right in a sense about the players having something to do with it, but they are the players picked by AVB, so if they're not doing the job properly, where does the buck stop ?? As for Dempsey and Sigi, well who brought them to the club ??

I just find it so disappointing that he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes. The substitution at Southampton on Sunday was unessecary as much as it was ludicrous. Likewise last night.

I keep getting told he needs time in the job. That's fair enough, but it is a fact that he has been outwitted by other new managers this season - Clark of West Brom, Hughton of Norwich who both showed more tactical savvy in their games against us than AVB did.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Afternoon SC - Hughton twice!

 

[Spurlock]

.Spurlock.

You're right in a sense about the players having something to do with it, but they are the players picked by AVB, so if they're not doing the job properly, where does the buck stop ?? As for Dempsey and Sigi, well who brought them to the club ??

I just find it so disappointing that he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes. The substitution at Southampton on Sunday was unessecary as much as it was ludicrous. Likewise last night.

I keep getting told he needs time in the job. That's fair enough, but it is a fact that he has been outwitted by other new managers this season - Clark of West Brom, Hughton of Norwich who both showed more tactical savvy in their games against us than AVB did.

It was AVB who picked Dempsey and Sig..this is my point..maybe he is a bit stuck so Falque is getting more chances..i hope so as he has looked hungry.

It was AVB who got Dempsey in..not sure if he got Sig in..i cant recall the timing. However who was available to have got that we did not try for? think we tried very hard to get Moutinhio..who is exactly what we need. So i do think he needs re inforcements and that will aid him and his thinking. I do agree with you that we cant wait for this to happen and in glimpses AVB has displayed his naivety...Harry was doing that with 30+ years more of experience than AVB. Not Harry bashing..just saying the best of managers do it...and even though AVB does not seemed to have learnt. I think he will just like he did with player management coming from chelsea to Spurs.

 

[O.Spurcat]

Hi spurcat

does he play the same formation so the players can get used to it, like you say?

or

does he change it up, as a top coach would adapt the formation to suit the players he has available, as you also say?

it's difficult.

I guess this is why a few of us are now agreeing that against wigan we should try something different. we've played 13 games (??) or so this season and as you've mentioned, there's been a fair few where we've been below par. It could be said that the formation has had sufficient time and we need something fresh and unpredictable, especially whilst certain players are out?

or, does that ruin all the hard work that's gone into this style of play, so far? but on the other hand, certain players have been under performing for a few weeks....

it's a tough one. I wouldn't want to be making the decisions, I know that for sure.

January is going to be an interesting time for us. it could be the most important window of the last 2 seasons or so. The new manager needs backing in every way possible to make this a success.

I know it's early days, but by Jan, we're either going to have clicked with this style of play and be a fluent tottenham, or, we're going to need reinforcements.

loads of factors will come into play as the season goes on, such as niggling injuries, travelling, cold weather etc etc and the squad needs to be deep. if we want a top 4 finish, we're going to need to strengthen, IMO.

sorry if that sounds negative, it's not supposed to be.

. Roo

Well the answer to that depends on whether AVB is a one-trick pony or not.......

 

[notsosmartspur]

Suggesting Harry had no plan B is rubbish, under him we quite often started badly and after alterations fared better later on. We scored late goals often retrieving 1 goal deficits. He also reacted in games going horribly wrong, Young Boys away springs immediately to mind. AVB has failed to display any such nous so far, and his injury restrictions are no worse than Harry suffered.

 

[Spurlock]

Suggesting Harry had no plan B is rubbish, under him we quite often started badly and after alterations fared better later on. We scored late goals often retrieving 1 goal deficits. He also reacted in games going horribly wrong, Young Boys away springs immediately to mind. AVB has failed to display any such nous so far, and his injury restrictions are no worse than Harry suffered.

picking results from a 3 year stint which probably equates to over 100 matches..is a bit diffrenet to being judged by the first 14 matches. Once again this is not Harry bashing...but im sure there were matches in that 3 year stint where we can have the same criticisms of Harry as we have of AVB already. However AVB doesnt seem to have the luxury of being judged by the odd match here and there as oppose to Harry..its every match for AVB it seems.

Harry didnt give us a 45 minutes against United once like the one AVB has managed to give us...so this argument can swing both ways.

I agree under Harry team talk did the trick on many occasions..notably when we beat Arsenal 2-3 after being 2 down. We have done similar against QPR this season and Reading if im not mistaken.

My glass will have to remain half full for now notso.

 

[Spurm]

This is just my personal opinion but i think he's done ok.
He's really been hamstrung with the players he's had at his disposal. No kaboul, no Ade, lots of key players from last season gone, yet we still sit in 4th. The performances haven't been stellar, but at least the points have been coming in. And there have been times when we have shown what we can expect in the future.
I really didn't think Bale would suit the system at first but recently he has shown good form.

 

[notsosmartspur]

picking results from a 3 year stint which probably equates to over 100 matches..is a bit diffrenet to being judged by the first 14 matches. Once again this is not Harry bashing...but im sure there were matches in that 3 year stint where we can have the same criticisms of Harry as we have of AVB already. However AVB doesnt seem to have the luxury of being judged by the odd match here and there as oppose to Harry..its every match for AVB it seems.

Harry didnt give us a 45 minutes against United once like the one AVB has managed to give us...so this argument can swing both ways.

I agree under Harry team talk did the trick on many occasions..notably when we beat Arsenal 2-3 after being 2 down. We have done similar against QPR this season and Reading if im not mistaken.

My glass will have to remain half full for now notso.

You are right in saying there were some games where none of us knew what Harry was doing, but as you also say thats a few games over a couple of hundred, not a few in ONLY 14. So that argument swings my way only!

Harry didn't produce 45mins like we did at United...are you ****in jokin??!!...Inter! Harry also played against stronger United sides in good form.

Halftime kicks up the arse should not be necessary v 2 promoted sides.

Mines half empty...get em in mate!

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

A few games under Redknapp, Notso? Come on, he persisted with an utterly failed system for months at the end of last season, when our only win in that time involved changing things up against Swansea.
He had a few that were utterly mindboggling, most memorably the FA Cup tie at Stevenage, where I still can't work out what the hell he was doing!

Villas-Boas needs to stop making these defensively minded substitutions, but we also need to sort the squad out, so that he has better options available to him.
We've basically had one striker for the campaign so far, which is bloody ludicrous.
Huddlestone's slow recovery has also meant that we've only really had one fit playmaker in Dembele, who signed late, impressed and then got injured.

I'm hoping that the performances by Falque and Carroll last night earn them some more game time, as they're exactly what we've needed.
As soon as Huddlestone tires in his next game he should be replaced in a like-for-like move with Carroll, though they couldn't be more different physically.
Falque looks like he can play anywhere as part of the three in behind the striker, so we need to look to that and scare the crap out of the opposition, rather than inviting them on.

It's been a mixed bag from the manager so far, but our transfer activity certainly hasn't helped him.
He made some poor decisions in the pre-season though, so he didn't help himself there. Repeatedly picking Jenas over Huddlestone infuriated me and it's worked out badly.

 

[Spurlock]

I'll see you at the Bill Nick, Notso...I don't actually disagree with you, just seeing it from a different angle.

Damn did I love our CL campaign under Harry.

 

[notsosmartspur]

PNP - I based my comment on when he was interested in Spurs, not England! but yeah, that was a real plot loss period, reasons known, so thats why I didn't bring it into my thinking.

On the one striker, AVB said more than once at the end of the last TW, that what he has now is enough, he has to stand by that or admit he was wrong.