Moussa's Socks: Keep or Bin?

[Citizen Kane]

Was mightily impressed by his performance today. Granted, it was against a weakened and largely disinterested Swansea side, but I think it is safe to say we're starting to see a bit more of a £30m player. Last season Poch used him in the '3' behind Kane and it was painfully obvious to see that he simply lacked the technical ability to play the role.

When we initially signed him, I and many others assumed it would be to deploy him in CM, which is where Benitez utilised him at Newcastle and where he has often played for France. This season, probably due to Lamela's return and the addition of Moira to the squad, Sissoko is being used more frequently alongside the DM in the Dembele role.

Whilst a direct comparison between the two is pointless and unfair as it is essentially stacking up our most technically gifted footballer against someone who struggles to do more than run in a straight line, there is no question that Sissoko is vastly more effective in that role. His strength, engine and pace allow him to pick up possession from deep, advance forwards at speed and then lay the ball off to one of 4 technically superior players in front of him to then do the damage.

Assuming this summer we will see the departures of Alderweireld, Janssen, GKN and Rose (plus perhaps a few others), and we bring in (pleaseeee!) Mawson, Sessegnon and NEW STRIKER IV, will we have the budget to pursue the likes of Doucoure? Do we even need to? Should we allow Sissoko to develop in the CM role and see how it goes? Or am I allowing one decent 90mins of football to cloud my judgement of a man who is Sunday-league pub team standard at best?

 

[Spurf]

A few seasons ago Sissoko would not have looked out of place in a Spurs team right now his ball receiving and his passing mark him out as a player a tad below the general standard that Spurs have reached. Having said that Dier has been below par in his passing this season as well. Pochettino has said Sissoko is the only player in his squad that can join defence and attack, maybe I am missing the point but I don't see that. We have our wing backs and Dier and Dembele as well as Wanjama.
On the other hand he has responded very well to what I assume Pochettino has been saying to him because he works very hard for the team and does a lot less fruitless runs and many more quick lay offs. He has fulfilled a role a number of times this season and I do believe we would have missed him in some games. I wouldn't get rid of him unless we have recruited a replacement.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I really like his attitude this season and he definitely has his uses, which appeared most unlikely last season. His strength and athleticism are admirable and he makes very few mistakes with the ball in his own half. I've no problem with him playing the way he's done for most of this season.

However, he's even less likely to score a goal than Mousa Mk I and Harry Winks. That's a pretty terrible damnation of his footballing skills. Some of his attacking play is shockingly bad. I've never seen so many air shots from a professional footballer.

We should be looking to improve our weakest areas and possibly no.1 of those, is a lack of goals from our deep lying midfield players. Be it Victor Wanyama, Mousa I, Moussa II, Eric Dier or Harry Winks, there's just no goal threat there. Someone with the ability to threaten the goal from distance would add a whole new dimension to our play, just as Lucas Moura's running with the ball could.

He's also coming up 29 this summer,so, if there are takers and a better option out there, he's still pretty high up the chart for selling, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Allledleykingsmen]

Id keep him as he has become a good squad player this season .

I think were pretty set in CM with Dier - Dembele - Wanyama - Sissoko - Winks and even Eriksen in there. Its not a position that needs improving as a priority imo.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I'd leave it to Pochettino.
If he can do a job as a utility player and he's well liked by the squad members, then keep him.
Far from ideal, but nobody that does that job ever is.

 

[deedub93]

I would make him practice his first touch for about 4 hours a day every day. A good first touch would turn him into a bloody good player. You can't knock his commitment, he's just always thinking too far ahead of himself.

 

[remembercolinlee]

If he consistently plays like he did yesterday then then I guess more of you will be seeing I was right to be his biggest fan

 

[Roo]

I think it’s best to see how he’s gets on in our remaining games and judge the season as a whole. If he shows the same level of performance as yesterday, maybe we’ll be saying that the Pochettino-second-season-coaching-effect has finally come to fruition (which we’ve said about other players). If he turns to dog **** next week, the performance against Swansea will soon be forgotten.
He’s clearly capable of adding something useful to the squad, but unfortunately we just aren’t seeing it enough.
We should also remember that he’s supposedly one of our highest earners.
As we move into the new stadium and look to push on (maybe adding extra strength), will he avoid the chop? Levy will certainly be looking at his age, wage, and getting as much of that £30 mill back as poss.
I’m not so sure he’ll be here, but if he can play like he did yesterday on a regular basis, then I certainly hope we’d consider keeping him.

 

[Spur of the Moment]

I think it’s best to see how he’s gets on in our remaining games and judge the season as a whole. If he shows the same level of performance as yesterday, maybe we’ll be saying that the Pochettino-second-season-coaching-effect has finally come to fruition (which we’ve said about other players). If he turns to dog **** next week, the performance against Swansea will soon be forgotten.
He’s clearly capable of adding something useful to the squad, but unfortunately we just aren’t seeing it enough.
We should also remember that he’s supposedly one of our highest earners.
As we move into the new stadium and look to push on (maybe adding extra strength), will he avoid the chop? Levy will certainly be looking at his age, wage, and getting as much of that £30 mill back as poss.
I’m not so sure he’ll be here, but if he can play like he did yesterday on a regular basis, then I certainly hope we’d consider keeping him.

What he said ^

 

[Dier Hard]

Title should probably swap out Sissoko for Winks.

I'd probably say Sissoko has guaranteed himself at least another season for a number of reasons.

1) Upturn in form. Since his permanent move to CM, he's gone from absolutely useless to OK. He's nowhere near as good as Dembele but he tries doing what Dembele does in terms of bring the ball forward (hence why Poch said about him being great at turning defence to attack) and we need that in CM as Dier/ Wanyama have different instructions. Though I won't be expecting regular performances like he put in at Swansea.

2) Attitude. Not that we have many bad eggs at Spurs who bitch to the media *cough* Rose *cough* but he seems a decent and determined guy who doesn't kick up a fuss when benched. May be far from the best player we have but he'll always give 100% and that's something I can respect.

3) Key to helping players settle. An underrated characteristic for a footballer, Moussa will be key to helping Aurier and Moura settle (although Aurier's personality suggests he's already a big influence in the dressing room). His friendship with Aurier stems back from Toulouse days while Aurier's friendship with Moura now means there's a little tripod.

4) We wouldn't make back the £30m we paid so we might as well utilise him rather than sell him at a loss.

As for Winks. Not really progressed since his debut, has picked up two injuries in each season that have kept him out for spells and is currently in a position where he can't even make a match day squad after some piss poor performances in which he didn't do what we require from our non-defensive CM. Ironically, Winks may find himself in a situation of trouble that he once benefited from - Ryan was sold to allow the progression of Winks, yet Winks may now need to be moved on to allow the progression of TOB.
Sentiment says gives Winks one more season, head says cash in on him (£20m?) and use that towards Doucoure/ Gomes/ Seri (please, for the love of footballing gods let it be Seri) while promoting TOB to challenge Dembele, Sissoko and potential new CM.

 

[Blue and White]

It's getting close to world cup team selection.

Nuff said.

 

[Spurlock]

Sissoko has turned it around...it's the reputation he can't shake off enough or fast enough

30 million in today's market is decent. There's players in our squad below Moussa in terms of what they offer the team.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Make him captain and name the new stadium after him.

 

[Citizen Kane]

Title should probably swap out Sissoko for Winks.

I'd probably say Sissoko has guaranteed himself at least another season for a number of reasons.

1) Upturn in form. Since his permanent move to CM, he's gone from absolutely useless to OK. He's nowhere near as good as Dembele but he tries doing what Dembele does in terms of bring the ball forward (hence why Poch said about him being great at turning defence to attack) and we need that in CM as Dier/ Wanyama have different instructions. Though I won't be expecting regular performances like he put in at Swansea.

2) Attitude. Not that we have many bad eggs at Spurs who bitch to the media *cough* Rose *cough* but he seems a decent and determined guy who doesn't kick up a fuss when benched. May be far from the best player we have but he'll always give 100% and that's something I can respect.

3) Key to helping players settle. An underrated characteristic for a footballer, Moussa will be key to helping Aurier and Moura settle (although Aurier's personality suggests he's already a big influence in the dressing room). His friendship with Aurier stems back from Toulouse days while Aurier's friendship with Moura now means there's a little tripod.

4) We wouldn't make back the £30m we paid so we might as well utilise him rather than sell him at a loss.

As for Winks. Not really progressed since his debut, has picked up two injuries in each season that have kept him out for spells and is currently in a position where he can't even make a match day squad after some piss poor performances in which he didn't do what we require from our non-defensive CM. Ironically, Winks may find himself in a situation of trouble that he once benefited from - Ryan was sold to allow the progression of Winks, yet Winks may now need to be moved on to allow the progression of TOB.
Sentiment says gives Winks one more season, head says cash in on him (£20m?) and use that towards Doucoure/ Gomes/ Seri (please, for the love of footballing gods let it be Seri) while promoting TOB to challenge Dembele, Sissoko and potential new CM.

I get that Winks is to you what Trippier is to me, but surely he has shown more promise over the past 2 years than Sissoko?

 

[Dier Hard]

I get that Winks is to you what Trippier is to me, but surely he has shown more promise over the past 2 years than Sissoko?

I suppose you could say that, although I just feel sentiment gets in the way of people's opinion when it comes to Winksy. Certainly this season, Sissoko has been miles better than him.

Winks has had some impressive games at times but in general I sit there watching him thinking "what is the point of you being on the pitch?". He's too safe, doesn't get attacks going, isn't assertive enough and doesn't utilise his excellent passing beyond 5m sidewards/ backwards balls. It's also telling that he's not made the match day squad since Rochdale - where he had his second piss poor performance against them - and so things aren't exactly looking up for him. This is now his second season with us and for me, he's regressed. Mason and Bentaleb both had two seasons in the first team and both were better players.

I've never understood the anti-Tripps movement. Always been a reliable player, very decent assist stats from a FB, improved immensely on his defensive aspects over the past 12 or so months and he's a very vocal player on the pitch. He's one of the best RBs in the Prem yet some still deem him not good enough. For me, it's just weird that he doesn't get the appreciation I feel he deserves.

 

[Citizen Kane]

I suppose you could say that, although I just feel sentiment gets in the way of people's opinion when it comes to Winksy. Certainly this season, Sissoko has been miles better than him.

Winks has had some impressive games at times but in general I sit there watching him thinking "what is the point of you being on the pitch?". He's too safe, doesn't get attacks going, isn't assertive enough and doesn't utilise his excellent passing beyond 5m sidewards/ backwards balls. It's also telling that he's not made the match day squad since Rochdale - where he had his second piss poor performance against them - and so things aren't exactly looking up for him. This is now his second season with us and for me, he's regressed. Mason and Bentaleb both had two seasons in the first team and both were better players.

I've never understood the anti-Tripps movement. Always been a reliable player, very decent assist stats from a FB, improved immensely on his defensive aspects over the past 12 or so months and he's a very vocal player on the pitch. He's one of the best RBs in the Prem yet some still deem him not good enough. For me, it's just weird that he doesn't get the appreciation I feel he deserves.

I'm surprised you're saying that DH. Winks' handful of performances in the CL alone far exceed anything Sissoko has done this season. True he has had a few shockingly bad performances since returning from injury but he can at least do the very basics of football that Sissoko struggles so much with.

He is a bit too 'safe' for my liking too but I think the key for a player in his position is a consistent run of football. The Modric role is without question the hardest on the pitch to learn and master. It cannot be taught as so much of it depends on how the player sees the chess board in front of him and how well he can anticipate the movement of the various pieces. Winks is struggling to get into this team because he simply isn't at the requisite level yet. The catch-22 is that he'll never be at that level without a season or two of regular football under his belt. Modric by contrast had the advantage of playing almost every game for Dinamo for about 5 straight seasons before arriving here, and then had the good fortune of joining a team nowhere near as good as the one Winks is trying to break into now.

Yes, a lot of our judgement of him is clouded by sentimentality, but at the same time I think we've already seen more from him than we did from Carroll, Mason or Bentaleb. Winks has been tested at far higher levels of competition than any of them and hasn't been found wanting. I think his past few performances are more down to lack of confidence than lack of ability. Another injury setback coinciding with Wanyama returning and Dembele hitting form. It probably sucks to sit there knowing you need a good 3 seasons of uninterrupted game time to develop into a Modric but that you'll never get that kind of opportunity.

I'd sell him to a PL side with a buy-back clause and see how he develops over the next 2 to 3 seasons. Someone like B'mouth where they play good football or Brighton where Chris can take him under his wing.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Mauricio Pochettino says that Winksy's playing with it in his mind that his ankle is causing him problems. It seems unclear whether he problem is in the ankle or in his head but there seems to be a problem.

I remember the chapter about Martin Chivers in 'The Glory Game'. He'd broken his leg not long after joining us and despite a successful recovery, he was holding back and protecting the leg. Bill Nicholson told the centre halves, Mike England and 'Spud' Collins particularly, to kick lumps out of him in training so as to re-light his fire and combative nature. It may come to that with Winksy. He has the talent but he needs to be bold and brave if he wants to make it at Spurs. Feeling that he's carrying injuries and playing like it will severely limit his career.

I'm still optimistic that he can continue to improve but next season is going to be key. A time will come to move on, if he does not but I think he'll still be with us next season.

 

[Dier Hard]

I'm surprised you're saying that DH. Winks' handful of performances in the CL alone far exceed anything Sissoko has done this season. True he has had a few shockingly bad performances since returning from injury but he can at least do the very basics of football that Sissoko struggles so much with.

He is a bit too 'safe' for my liking too but I think the key for a player in his position is a consistent run of football. The Modric role is without question the hardest on the pitch to learn and master. It cannot be taught as so much of it depends on how the player sees the chess board in front of him and how well he can anticipate the movement of the various pieces. Winks is struggling to get into this team because he simply isn't at the requisite level yet. The catch-22 is that he'll never be at that level without a season or two of regular football under his belt. Modric by contrast had the advantage of playing almost every game for Dinamo for about 5 straight seasons before arriving here, and then had the good fortune of joining a team nowhere near as good as the one Winks is trying to break into now.

Yes, a lot of our judgement of him is clouded by sentimentality, but at the same time I think we've already seen more from him than we did from Carroll, Mason or Bentaleb. Winks has been tested at far higher levels of competition than any of them and hasn't been found wanting. I think his past few performances are more down to lack of confidence than lack of ability. Another injury setback coinciding with Wanyama returning and Dembele hitting form. It probably sucks to sit there knowing you need a good 3 seasons of uninterrupted game time to develop into a Modric but that you'll never get that kind of opportunity.

I'd sell him to a PL side with a buy-back clause and see how he develops over the next 2 to 3 seasons. Someone like B'mouth where they play good football or Brighton where Chris can take him under his wing.

Winks was good in a couple CL games but Sissoko also played good alongside him at the Bernabeu.

Sissoko may only have a fraction of the natural talent Winks has but he's utilised everything he has to have put in some half decent performances this season. So many times I've said along the lines of "Sissoko actually played well" to the point where I shouldn't be finding it such a surprise any more.

For me, Mason and Bentaleb were better players, especially the latter. Bentaleb would still be here if it wasn't for his attitude and it's worth remembering he kept Dembele out of the side for the majority of Poch's first season.

Don't mean to dig you out but any Modric comparisons are laughable. Modric was the best CM I've seen at the club, leagues above anything we've had in my life time and that says a lot considering I love watching an on form Dembele. He could see things on the pitch that I couldn't even see sitting in the stands and I had a better view of things going on around him.

I think you somewhat hit the nail on the head in your final paragraph, using Brighton and Bournemouth (with all due respect to those) as examples of clubs who Winks could go to sums up the level he's probably suited for.

 

[lennypops]

Just like lots of people, it seems, I watched the weekend's game and found myself thinking "But if Poch likes him so much and he clearly is happy to buy into the philosophy and work hard and if he can play in the middle and learn how to just run in a straight line with the ball maybe...I mean - he could be a ****ing monster, couldn't he?! It would be Poch's masterpiece to turn Moussa Sissoko into a footballer well worthy of a place in a top, top side".

Now, a few days on: He's gonna be 29 in the summer. He's been at the club nearly two years and he has only just hit the heady heights of "quite good actually. ****ed up a couple of times but you know...quite good". He's actually made a couple of passes in the last couple of games that were actually pretty good. They weren't amazing but they were certainly "good", in fact maybe one of them was "very good". It's just...He really has been ****ing dreadful for almost his entire time with us. I can't see why we can't have a player on that field who can run, can follow instructions, can double -up, close space, press when necessary AND...wait for it...play football. I feel sorry for him cos I can't shake the idea that he himself knows that he's somehow blagged his way into a football level way beyond his ability. But honestly - there is a huge chunk of pure, blind optimism in thinking that he can, at his age, turn into something comparable to the level of player we need to have now.

Having said all that: in Poch I trust. If Poch thinks he can do a job then...deep breath...I have to remember that Poch knows a ****load more about both football and Moussa Sissoko than me. And if he does play *surely* it has to be in CM, not AM (it's bizarre that he was ever played further up the pitch - it's never good when you're looking at an AM and wondering if their best position might be DM or emergency CB...).

But...no. Changed my mind again. that Poch rates him and trusts him is a really important entry in the "Pro's" column. But honestly it is virtually the only thing in that column other than "is big and can run fast". Look - the guy's just very ****ing bad at football. It's that simple and it's been evident even during the games he's played "well". Many, many, many games he's been pure ****e. So yeah - sell him. Of course Poch can do something useful with him - he's Poch. But frankly he's the worst CM we've had at the club for a very long time. I'd rather Poch worked his magic and turned VIctor Wanyama (say) into the world's greatest CM than continue the education of a very limited player who is probably past his peak.

(And wow - mentioning Wanyama really puts the question into perspective. The number of times I had cause last year to think "Jesus - I bloody love Wanyama"...The number of times I've come close to saying that about Sissoko in nearly two years? Zero. Obviously).

 

[Dier Hard]

****, I've wrote two large comments about why I think Moussa has perhaps earned another season at the club but this is just taking praise way too far:

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