only room for one ego at lfc and he's called klopp. emotion is for pussies.. if you are angry go kick a wall... don;t cry about it on social media.
That happened we know it happened we know Sakho was a prat. However your timeline is a bit skewed in relation to my point about someone going around saying you aren't fit when you are. Because Sakho did not rant while the team were in the US. In fact he didn't say anything after being sent home until the end of september (season has started at this point). Klopp comes out and says he's not fit and mama is annoyed. So if we look at it from the other side for one minute. Sakho goes home as requested Klopp states that he is fed up with mamas lateness etc Klopp says at the end of September that mama can't play because he is unfit Mama feels hard done by and does the rant Now lets try to plug the gaps a little bit. Admittedly we don't know what was said between the two when klopp came back from the tour. However what we do know is even after that conversation sakho was quiet and towed the party line. Klopp says that he is unfit and mama takes exception and has a rant. Whether mama should or shouldn't have ranted is a matter of opinion. I just think this can be fixed and it wouldn't damage klopps rep in anyway at all.
Clubs these days are very conscious of PR. Perhaps telling the public Sakho wasn't quite fit seemed a white lie worth telling? After all, it puts Sakho in a better light than telling everyone that it was for disciplinary reasons. Imo, Sakho should have just taken it and knuckled down to work his way back - and if he had a problem he should have sorted it out in private with the manager. That, for me, is the mature way of going about it, not whingeing on social media and undermining the manager's credibility.
Well..the fact that responded to a question about it all...paraphrasing..."I missed a training session happens all the time at other clubs." This in the same interview where he's saying he'd love to be back in our shirt. While this might be accurate...it shows he really has no brains. It sounds like he still doesn't think whatever he did was that out of order. It doesn't matter if he thinks that..it's how klopp sees it and if he really wanted back he'd have just said: "situation was what it was..I've trained hard, played well and done all that the boss asked me to do..so up to him." He just can't help but open his mouth...and THAT I think is what Klopp is concerned about...someone that will constantly question your decision making when he doesn't like or understand it. As I said...if Klopp sees enough to bring him back fine..but I'm sceptical of this human being stuff..dunno about everyone else but even though I have a good working relationship with my boss and can discuss things..the conversation stops when they say "that's how I want it done".
Yeah I can understand that. I get in some respects why it might be better for him to tell that porkie pie. Maybe he has tried to sort out with the manager, and the manager was blanking him. Maybe whinging wasn't the best thing to do but people have a right to say how they feel if they feel hard done by. Managers whinge to the media all the time (admittedly klopp does very little of that and I respect him for it), why is it seen as a major issue when a player does it? Double standards
You think that's a good idea? Because if my boss told me he wanted me to do something unethical or illegal that conversation certainly wouldn't stop on my part.
Well that's taking it to extremes. Within the normal confines of your job description you do as your bloody well told because that's what you're paid for. That's how it works.
Errrrrr...what are you on about? What a daft comparison..what has Klopp asked Sakho to do that is unethical or illegal? I'm talking about normal everyday structure not fantastic scenarios.. My boss asks or says something to be done..I can discuss ways I believe it can be best achieved. My boss states specific way..I can highlight issues I see with that path. Boss says wants it done that way anyway...I do it..because they are the boss. I believe that's the standard hierarchical structure in any employment...in fact some would have less leeway. Are you self employed? Because I can't see your approach working with many bosses I've had..by all means you can have a whinge with fellow colleagues but I'm damn sure if you started criticising your boss or place of work on social media it wouldn't end much different to Sakhos situation!
Yes it is to the extreme. But people should challenge their bosses on decisions that they don't feel are right. I do it everyday in my job. That's how things become more effective.
TBH my comment was a bit left field, but I will share with you where it came from. Think of all the **** that goes on as a result of doing as your boss tells you and all the scandals that happen as a result of people not feeling strongly enough about why a decision is wrong or maybe not the best. It is an extreme example, but that's how it all starts isn't it? By "just doing what your boss tells you" So you can make out that I am overreacting or blowing it out of proportion in this situation, which you are right I probably am; however your attitude is completely the wrong attitude to have and imo is the only part that is daft. My main point is Sakho can defend himself and he has every right to do so. Admittedly he probably could have gone about it in a different way but again the original point is that I think it can be resolved.
I've been self-employed for a long time now, but I used to work in printing in a job that required a lot of intuitive input. Each task could be approached in a number of different ways. I could discuss the best ways to do it with my foreman but if he said "I want it doing this way" then that's the way I would do it. It simply can't work any other way.
So, turn it around: if you were in charge and one of those underneath you openly defied your instructions, you'd be perfectly happy with that?
TBH I am studying for an exam which requires these sort of debates, so sorry for being OTT but my head is doing this.
You know as well as I do that would depend on whether my instruction was reasonable or whether it wouldn't be.
From your response to Saint, I don't believe we are actually disagreeing. Yes you can challenge your boss if you think you are being treated unfairly. Most firms even have a procedure for that if the relationship breaks down. That's very different however than ignoring set rules...like turning up to work on time, missing meetings or acting outside of established protocol (eg taking a substance without going through medical team first). In most work places you do that without a valid reason you will get disciplined. Now the football world is as you say a bit different. Those grumblings to colleagues get reported through "unnamed sources". We don't have the media asking our bosses for updates on internal discipline and we don't have thousands of online media waiting for our every word or trying to interpret photographs to gauge our working relationships. With that in mind..football managers should maybe take a leaf from normal bosses and reply with "that's an internal matter and can't be discussed" but even that can be misreported and cause increased friction. It could probably only work if there's a preagreement between managers and players that nothing will be discussed other than on field performance. And tbf most managers don't even single their players out for that either..cough..Mourinho...cough..lol. Since unfortunately some of Sakhos misdemeanours are in the public arena we are discussing them. He broke rules and protocols and was disciplined a a the club saw fit. He didn't lose his job or pay..you could call it being on probation....a normal disciplinary practice. Unlike us, if it doesn't work out his current bosses will find him a new job for him..we don't get that luxury lol
I completely agree with all that Frank. I was just stating that if we all sat back and said nothing all of the time, then that is a real problem.
coming full circle I think it could be fixed without any harm at all. It could even lead to respect between the two and a better working relationship. Sakho happy at second chance, klopp gets what he wants which is a good centre back who is hard working.
Why would you even give an unreasonable instruction? Are you suggesting that Klopp had unreasonable expectations of Sakho? Because that's what we're discussing, not some hypothetical scenario where a boss requires someone to do something outside of their normal responsibilities.
Firstly that was my point I wouldn't give an unreasonable instruction and my answer was based on a hypothetical boss not myself. Sorry I mis understood the question as me an Frank were talking about bosses in general at that point. No I don't think Klopp has unreasonable expectations.
