You really do open yourself to ridicule from both arsenal fans and opposition with comments like this.
Misplaced Anger?
- Thread starter afcftw
- Start date
That's mediocrity and lack of ambition, right there.
Regardless of your stance on Wenger, some of you have really brainwashed yourselves into accepting second best.
Embarrassing post. You should be ashamed of yourself if you actually think this.
To some extent Toledo isn't wrong.
For example the Champions League final 2006 - It wasn't poor management or poor performances that cost us that final. It was poor luck.
A better run with injuries in 2009 and we could have well have won the league.
But.. year upon year Wenger does make the same mistakes. He doesn't change adapt. If anything it seems like Wenger is hoping for some good fortune - because he is clearly not going to change anything philosophically or tactically.
For example the Champions League final 2006 - It wasn't poor management or poor performances that cost us that final. It was poor luck.
A better run with injuries in 2009 and we could have well have won the league.
But.. year upon year Wenger does make the same mistakes. He doesn't change adapt. If anything it seems like Wenger is hoping for some good fortune - because he is clearly not going to change anything philosophically or tactically.
Chill Out. These boards are for debating opinions. Quite with the vitriol.
It would be boring on here if we all had the same opinions.
Vitriol? Don't be such a wuss.
I'm sorry, but I stick by what I said. If he genuinely thinks that way, it is embarrassing. You want to know why the fans' expectations have eroded over the years? Why we struggle to create a winning mentality throughout the team? Why we lack ambition? Because people who work at the club seem to have the exact same mindset and it has been reflected in their actions over the years.
No - he is wrong.
To say it's just purely coincidental rotten luck that we've struggled to win in Europe or the Premier League is a massive cop out and absolves Wenger and the board of pretty much all responsibility.
To then claim that if we did things perfectly, we still may not win anything for 100 years, is just as ludicrous. If that's the case, then what's the point in trying? Why bother to make efforts to improve at all?
Look at what he's saying logically and you will understand it was a ridiculous post, so I'm not sure why you're defending him.
Your claiming he should be ashamed of himself for having a differing opinion to yourself. Get a grip.
It's hard to have a winning mentality when we have a bunch of whiny-emo fans. Things really arnt soo bad.
Thats not what he said. He said it's possible to not win things even when your doing all the right things as manager. It's a bit of a straw man scenario but its hard to disprove.
You can't blame the fans for a lack of winning mentality in the team. That's ridiculous.
And by Arsenal's standards thing ARE that bad.
And by Arsenal's standards thing ARE that bad.
I was confusing what he said on this thread with a post he made on another thread, but he did say that he thinks it's mainly bad luck that explains our poor trophy haul in the last decade. Here:
http://www.not606.com/threads/wenger-in-or-out.328483/page-8#post-9662015
The premise of his argument is ridiculous, nonetheless.
As for the scenario, there is no way of knowing or not because it's unclear what is meant by doing 'all the right things'. It's a completely redundant statement. What I can say for sure is that, for argument's sake, if we were doing the 'right things', the chances of us increasing our trophy haul and our level of competitiveness would increase. He doesn't seem to agree, though.
I think the reason some us get actually quite genuinely wound up and annoyed is that the accepting and forgiving attitudes towards Wenger from some on here (coupled with the embarrassing posts claiming that bad luck is what's stopped us winning the big ones) are those same (lack of) qualities we presume are also found in our weak and accepting board members as well as Wenger.
I didn't notice you wrote this yesterday - but for clarification purposes, I am absolutely not saying he should be ashamed for having a differing opinion to myself. I am saying he should be ashamed for writing something that displays such a clear lack of desire and a will to win.
I don't agree with 90% of the things you say, yet I've never once claimed that you should be ashamed of yourself because of that. Put each post into context and you'll see what I mean.
It's no surprise that the two people who liked your post are the same people who epitomise the losers' mentality that a section of our fanbase have.
Things are starting to get a little divisive around here. Whether we like it or not Wenger has at least another season with us and it's just the start too. I'm going to start off by enjoying Arsenal for one last season under Wenger (hopefully) and put his pedantic and annoying interviews on mute.
Look this is the way it is. If you go to games you would see a good 50% of the crowd is still pro-Wenger.
We have differing opinions. I get annoyed at just how overtly negative some posters (mentioning no names) are on here but it keeps the debate going.
Personally, I feel a lot of affection towards Wenger but am fed up with his reluctance to change/adapt. So I would like to see a talented young manager come in and replace him. I do kinda hope the Club keeps going down the attacking football route though.. I'm personally not keen on a Mourinho, Capello even Simeone.
My hee-larious 'ashamed' joke (and I use that term loosely) has fallen at the first hurdle with the boards very own Mr Sunshine 
In the words of Manuel...... Que?My hee-larious 'ashamed' joke (and I use that term loosely) has fallen at the first hurdle with the boards very own Mr Sunshine
My comment about needing luck, doesn't have anything to do with whether Wenger should stay or go. You have to pick the manager that provides the best chance of success, regardless.
I'm just pointing out that when you look at the winners every year they are nearly always, near the top of the fewest injuries table, near the top of the referee decisions table, and near the bottom of the posts hit table (and there may be other factors I haven't picked up on, like playing European football etc).
It may be coincidence, but if it isn't, then you have to accept that even if you have a perfect manager and he does everything right, he may not win.
I'm not trying to say that Wenger is the perfect manager and that he has done everything right, that is another discussion, and clearly he isn't perfect (nor would he claim to be I suspect). That is why I wish we knew more about what goes on inside the club, because I really don't think you can make a judgement on Wenger based on results alone.
If Leicester can finish top, from NOWHERE, simply because they finished absolutely at the top of all those "other" categories (their injury record last season was better than any club for 10 years I think) then how can you judge a manager simply because he doesn't win. You need to know what goes on inside the club in order to make an informed judgement.
The problem is that the opposite point is entirely in the negative, no one claims that if Arsenal went out and hired Claudio Ranieri tomorrow, Arsenal would be CERTAIN to win the league. If you don't accept that luck plays a large part in the game, then you have a lot more work to do explaining why Leicester won last year and why all the big teams (Arsenal aside) have years where they drop outside the top 6.
I'm just pointing out that when you look at the winners every year they are nearly always, near the top of the fewest injuries table, near the top of the referee decisions table, and near the bottom of the posts hit table (and there may be other factors I haven't picked up on, like playing European football etc).
It may be coincidence, but if it isn't, then you have to accept that even if you have a perfect manager and he does everything right, he may not win.
I'm not trying to say that Wenger is the perfect manager and that he has done everything right, that is another discussion, and clearly he isn't perfect (nor would he claim to be I suspect). That is why I wish we knew more about what goes on inside the club, because I really don't think you can make a judgement on Wenger based on results alone.
If Leicester can finish top, from NOWHERE, simply because they finished absolutely at the top of all those "other" categories (their injury record last season was better than any club for 10 years I think) then how can you judge a manager simply because he doesn't win. You need to know what goes on inside the club in order to make an informed judgement.
The problem is that the opposite point is entirely in the negative, no one claims that if Arsenal went out and hired Claudio Ranieri tomorrow, Arsenal would be CERTAIN to win the league. If you don't accept that luck plays a large part in the game, then you have a lot more work to do explaining why Leicester won last year and why all the big teams (Arsenal aside) have years where they drop outside the top 6.