Mikes selling up (for the 145574th time)

It is natural for a Sunderland fan to jump to the worst possible conclusion. I find in these situations its best to err on the side of caution and say it will all come out in the wash. As you say it proves nothing. If my business was raided by the HMRC, my staff arrested and I didn't think there was any justification, I'd certainly challenge the legality of it through the courts. That is just normal practice. At the very least I'd take legal advice if I had a bunch of highly paid solicitors and was running a multi million pound organisation. You'd be pretty thick not to. If those highly paid solicitors told you they'd challenge it as it was unlawful, you'd probably follow their advice.

Equally though, this regime do come across as quite sleazy/slimey so it could be there is something to go on. Time will tell and I wouldn't be interested in jumping to the clubs defence just in case.

As you say some clubs knowingly let sex offenders play on in the name of PL survival, and have zero moral compass. Their fans sing songs in defence of the sicko. Then they all end up looking like a bunch of heathens

Its bad enough if the club have something to hide without being so thick to presume innocence.

I love that Mackems use some story about Cisse in which no case has ever been brought, there is no evidence that the story is true, and simply go off what some jilted lover has told The Sun Must be true...

 

Quite amusing isn't it, when they watch highlights and hark back to the glory days of the six in a row, they've got Adam ****ing Johnson screaming at their screen with joy.
The gift that keeps on giving.

 

Just had a thought on this takeover thing; anyone else notice how good the picture of Staveley is? Gloriously clear, joyous and up close. Compare that to other people being "spotted" at SJP ( Dec picking his nose, Sting looking bored) and I just wonder....

 

HMRC have enough powers to do what they want sometimes, more than the police in some respects, I had them on my back and was ready to go to court to fight them on their demands, 10 days before the court case they applied to the judge to have my defence struck out which he did, I had no choice but to pay up based on their estimates, cost me £30,000 that I had to borrow.

 

This.

HMRC do have IMO more powers than anyone else.

An example I come across is where a house is bought a form has to be sent to HMRC within 28 days to inform them, confirm the price and if applicable pay the stamp duty. If not submitted in time then a penalty is payable starting at £100 plus interest if stamp duty is payable.

Fair enough as far as I'm concerned if stamp duty is payable but if no stamp duty is payable then on late submission there is still a penalty which starts at £100 and can go up to £200 for essentially failing to tell HMRC that you don't owe them any money. Who else can essentially charge you money for failing to tell them you don't owe them any money?

 

You still havent paid me back either.

 

Indeed. They have an incredible amount of power - some would say too much. However you only have to look how these big corporations cheat the tax laws with regularity to understand why they have the clout they do. Cheating taxes is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

I think we have been fortunate in our business in that whenever they have wanted something from us, they have asked and we have consented. We haven't been raided, but then I doubt we are a high profile target that would warrant a raid!

What I would say is there was considerable admin costs in preparing the documentation they requested, plus the access to admin staff on site when they came to further inspect. There was no way of recouping that cost to our business. Everything was fine but we were advised by our accountants that fighting them or making them jump through hoops, would see a very aggressive approach with potentially disruptive consequences.

What the club have done is not uncommon, many challenge the HMRC on the legality of their raids, demands or requests. That they have been told it was lawful doesn't necessarily automatically point to guilt. It would be foolish to think it does. I can see how that correlation is made, but it is simply a lack of understanding of the processes involved to do so.

Equally I wouldn't be surprised to find out we were up to something dodgy, most of these football clubs bend rules on all manner of things on a regular basis. Whether it be how FFP is accounted, poaching youngsters, illegal approaches to players, bunging agents - its all rife. Look at Fat Sam and his behaviour. He still has the nerve to consider his legal position. There is no shame in football.

 

It's not that big corporations and in particular the multi-nationals cheat it's the fact that HMRC will do deals with them that let them get away with paying a lot less than they really should and yet HMRC hammers the small businesses and sole traders cause you can't fight them. What HMRC are doing at NUFC and other clubs is trying to build a case for tax avoidance based on payments to agents being funneled through one point when they are in fact to several third parties who then avoid paying tax on the payments, this seems to be what they are doing but do not have the evidence to actually prove hence the raids.

 

There is that too. However I don't doubt that small, medium and large companies are cheating tax. They all are. The larger ones and higher profiles are "sexier" catches for the HMRC. Anyone who thinks they don't view it like this are kidding themselves. They get very excited by it up to a certain level. The huge multinationals are where they seem to suddenly lose interest...

You only have to look at how delighted they are when they catch out the million pound fraudsters whether it be gangs on computer processing units, jewellery, tabs or booze - some of these dodging tax of incredible value. I don't know what value NUFC would be avoiding but they aren't operating in the same value as some of these. They do however have a different kind of kudos attractive to the HMRC.

There is however also no doubt the government/HMRC have put some ridiculous rules in place which the likes of Google, Apple and Starbucks etc just laugh at. The fines are not scaled appropriate to size. You then have deals being cut, as you point out, so there is no doubt the HMRC is not operating correctly to capture all and sundry. The thresholds set are allow massive numbers of these multinationals to slip through the net. The cynic in me thinks these mistakes in setting up the system are all too convenient.

So while I accept tax and the scaling of it is a difficult area to manage, I don't think it is at all managed appropriately. So I fully understand why companies of all sizes choose to challenge the legality of it. I am aware what HMRC are driving at with NUFC (West Ham etc), and it could very well be the case. I don't think NUFC's challenge automatically means it is the case however.

it will all come out in the wash, because the one thing is the HMRC are very thorough once they believe they are onto something. A dog with a bone doesn't cut it.

 

Bless yas, you didn't have the balls for thread about it but at least you're discussing it now. Glad I could help

 

It's not as heart warming as the demise of your shower of sh!te.

 

The mackem ****socks are out
I’d imagine they’ve spent the past week dedicating their time to scouring HMRC rules to give themselves comfort that the biggest club In the North East may be kicked out of the PL.... anything to detract from their abject misery In their Pennywell slums.... and their shameful excuse of a football club.

Whilst we look forward to our next PL game....

 

I find Staveley very attractive indeed.

 

To be fair mate I'd probably suck off Murdoch to get rid of Ashley.
Anyone's more attractive!

 

Didn't we last have the pleasure of Bri's company when we first got raided?
I've gota say I'm delighted he keeps reading up on us so avidly, news about how **** Sunderland are every week naturally leaves you questing for more.

 

We can always rely on Mackems to keep us up to speed on what happens in our club....... as we are normally at work or busy planning Premiership away days...

 

For the 145575TH time.....

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...e-ashley-officially-puts-the-club-up-for-sale

 

Got a really good feeling this time.....