Midfield the problem?

Ze

Ze

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2011
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After last nights performance, it was quite obvious that we are lacking a serious something in the team (I can't help but feel that something is a 2008 Gerrard). It was the midfield that let us down last night, and you could say that it was the defensive midfield that let us down against West Brom, it's something that would have never happened under Rafa's 2 defensive midfielders as we all know he liked to build from a strong mid.

However, would you say our midfield is now our weak spot? Only a few seasons ago we had one of the best midfields in the world in Alonso, Masch and Gerrard but with Alonso and Masch gone, we've settled for Allen and Lucas who are okay players don't get me wrong, but not what we are used to.

Earlier in the season the problem seemed to be our strikers, with only Suarez as our fit striker, when Sturridge came in it seemed to be Reina and our defenders. Most recently it seems to be our midfield, so a case could be argued that we need a new player for each part of the team, but I think the big problem stems from a "midfield general" as it were. Gerrard has lost that edge, his recent form has showed he can't keep playing week in, week out and expected to do the same job he did 5 years ago.

We could do with a player like Alonso to jump back in here and really dictate play, allowing players to get up the field and back again and control the game.
 
From Lucas upwards, we have a weak team. We lack big game players who have the experience and intelligence. Henderson, Shelvey, Allen, Sterling etc are not ready for the first team, where Downing is simply awful and Assaidi is non-existent.

I've said it in other threads that our midfielders are not quick thinking, too slow when it comes to passing and lack adventure. For our system to work, we need:

a) players to pass to others quicker
b) not be afraid to pass to someone who has a couple of defenders around him
c) be confident enough to receive the ball in such tight positions.

I think Dev used Real Madrid as an example (obvious gulf in quality) but you can see the confidence they have on the ball, and their ability to pass and receive with ease. Anyone can control the ball and pass it when they're in acres of space. Try doing it with 2-3 defenders around you, retain the ball, get out of the sticky situation then release it.

But I'm sure Rodgers is looking at this and will bring in the neccessary players over the coming windows. Coutinho and Sturridge are very good examples and hopefully they can deliver. I am disappointed in Allen, Borini and Assaidi as they have not had an impact on the squad but will give them time - in addition, they were signed before our scouting committee was set up and perhaps Rodgers went into the summer market blind.

Re. Alonso - watching him against Real Madrid brought back great memories. People will often talk about his passing, vision etc but he's brilliant off the ball and is strong in the air and tackling. Of course, his passing was majestic and his set pieces were decent.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
From Lucas upwards, we have a weak team. We lack big game players who have the experience and intelligence. Henderson, Shelvey, Allen, Sterling etc are not ready for the first team, where Downing is simply awful and Assaidi is non-existent.

I've said it in other threads that our midfielders are not quick thinking, too slow when it comes to passing and lack adventure. For our system to work, we need:

a) players to pass to others quicker
b) not be afraid to pass to someone who has a couple of defenders around him
c) be confident enough to receive the ball in such tight positions.

I think Dev used Real Madrid as an example (obvious gulf in quality) but you can see the confidence they have on the ball, and their ability to pass and receive with ease. Anyone can control the ball and pass it when they're in acres of space. Try doing it with 2-3 defenders around you, retain the ball, get out of the sticky situation then release it.

But I'm sure Rodgers is looking at this and will bring in the neccessary players over the coming windows. Coutinho and Sturridge are very good examples and hopefully they can deliver. I am disappointed in Allen, Borini and Assaidi as they have not had an impact on the squad but will give them time - in addition, they were signed before our scouting committee was set up and perhaps Rodgers went into the summer market blind.

Re. Alonso - watching him against Real Madrid brought back great memories. People will often talk about his passing, vision etc but he's brilliant off the ball and is strong in the air and tackling. Of course, his passing was majestic and his set pieces were decent.
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It wasn't me <ok>
 
I think it is the system which leaves the midfield open. I'd much rather see us have two DM's and one AM at the minute, but I think it is more a DM, CM, and AM which creates an inbalance which the opposition find it easy to pass around. but then again, I'm a avid believer in Rafa's 4231 system too <laugh>
 
Gerrez said:
I think it is the system which leaves the midfield open. I'd much rather see us have two DM's and one AM at the minute, but I think it is more a DM, CM, and AM which creates an inbalance which the opposition find it easy to pass around. but then again, I'm a avid believer in Rafa's 4231 system too <laugh>
Click to expand...

I agree with you - it doesn't help when our full backs are pushing up as well which leaves even less protection.
 
Gerrez said:
I think it is the system which leaves the midfield open. I'd much rather see us have two DM's and one AM at the minute, but I think it is more a DM, CM, and AM which creates an inbalance which the opposition find it easy to pass around. but then again, I'm a avid believer in Rafa's 4231 system too <laugh>
Click to expand...

Rodgers has the defencive mid tuck in between the centre backs to allow the full backs to attack. So we quickly switch from a 442 to some thing more like this:

-------------xxxxxx---------------
-----xxxxx-----------xxxxx-------
--------------xxxxx---------------
--xxxxx-----xxxxxx-----xxxxx---
--------------xxxxx---------------
------xxxxx----------xxxxx------
---------------xxxx---------------

I like this defensively. But in front of that are big issues.

Our midfield almost stand in a straight line down the middle of the pitch a lot of the time with the CM and AM moving around a bit, but not far. This could be causing problems. I think maybe it could be worth either putting Gerrard and Henderson more like LCM and RCM like Mourinho did with Chelsea or we sacrifice a member of the front three to do another similar thing, maybe with a more flairfull AM. Allowing more numbers, muscle, presence and options in midfield.nLook below:

---------------Reina-------------
--Johnson-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique-
---------------Lucas-------------
------Henderson---Gerrard------
-------------Coutinho-----------
--------Suarez------Sturridge---

This shape is well spread for Rodgers style and adds an extra man in midfield, allowing extra protection for the back 4 and a better pass ability.
Lucas can still drop between the center backs and allow the full backs to attack. Also having every one well placed to play the ball out from the back.
Suarez and Sturridge's partnership can blossom.


The other thing about the first midfield I drew up is that when the midfield is in a straight line we lack options for playing the ball out from the back and become predictable. Having Henderson also involved in that will help fix this.

Our midfield also gets tired to early, causing us to concede late goals. I think the straight line thing makes this worse.
 
JK said:
Rodgers has the defencive mid tuck in between the centre backs to allow the full backs to attack. So we quickly switch from a 442 to some thing more like this:

-------------xxxxxx---------------
-----xxxxx-----------xxxxx-------
--------------xxxxx---------------
--xxxxx-----xxxxxx-----xxxxx---
--------------xxxxx---------------
------xxxxx----------xxxxx------
---------------xxxx---------------

I like this defensively. But in front of that are big issues.

Our midfield almost stand in a straight line down the middle of the pitch a lot of the team with the CM and AM moving around a bit, but not far. This could be causing problems. I think maybe it could be worth either putting Gerrard and Henderson more like LCM and RCM like Mourinho did with Chelsea or we sacrifice a member of the front three to do another similar thing, maybe with a more flairfull AM. Look below:

---------------Reina-------------
--Johnson-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique-
---------------Lucas-------------
------Henderson---Gerrard------
-------------Coutinho-----------
--------Suarez------Sturridge---

This shape is well spread for Rodgers style and adds an extra man in midfield, allowing extra protection for the back 4 and a better pass ability.
Lucas can still drop between the center backs and allow the full backs to attack. Also having every one well placed to play the ball out from the back.
Suarez and Sturridge's partnership can blossom.


The other thing about the first midfield I drew up is that when the midfield is in a straight line we lack options for playing the ball out from the back and become predictable. Having Henderson also involved in that will help fix this.
Click to expand...

That looks right to me JK <ok>
 
A midfielder only drops inbetween the CBs to collect the ball from the keeper, he does not stay there as part of a system!
 
Red Hadron Collider:4286096 said:
Why are people calling you 'Dev'? Is it an abbreviation of deviant?
Click to expand...

Its due to my devilish good looks :biggrin:
 
Gerrez said:
A midfielder only drops inbetween the CBs to collect the ball from the keeper, he does not stay there as part of a system!
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He doesnt stay exactly in between them but he is well placed to create a back three with them if we get hit on the counter will the full backs are forward. With out this we would concede even more goals.
 
Think you have to throw Sissoko in there as well, 2 players of steel, 1 of passing class, and the driving force of Gerrard.... those were simpler times! <laugh>

I think we have been missing that trick for a long time in terms of a steel player through the middle. Lucas is very good there but as Gerrez said, with Rodgers system it should probably be two DM. Only Lucas can do that at the moment. Should have looked at Sissoko, Matuidi, Diame and at least picked up one of them on the cheap.

I also think it is a case we have a lot of young midfielders and we also have midfielders who are not up to the grade ( some already got shipped out).

I still think we need new defenders to challenge/straight in to the starting team. Think that has become very stagnant as of late as well.
 
Think you have to throw Sissoko in there as well, 2 players of steel, 1 of passing class, and the driving force of Gerrard.... those were simpler times! <laugh>

I think we have been missing that trick for a long time in terms of a steel player through the middle. Lucas is very good there but as Gerrez said, with Rodgers system it should probably be two DM. Only Lucas can do that at the moment. Should have looked at Sissoko, Matuidi, Diame and at least picked up one of them on the cheap.

I also think it is a case we have a lot of young midfielders and we also have midfielders who are not up to the grade ( some already got shipped out).

I still think we need new defenders to challenge/straight in to the starting team. Think that has become very stagnant as of late as well.
 
JK said:
snip
Click to expand...
I agree with your points mostly, but I can't believe that professional footballers being paid a fortune and through training every day of the year don't have the nouse to move 10yards to the left or right to collect a pass in space but rather choose to stand in a line.

The system works fine in theory.

Our players are just dogshite and not smart enough to play it. You need flexible, intelligent players to create the right movement and fill in the gaps. We have maybe 2.
 
Spearing's Mannschaft said:
I agree with your points mostly, but I can't believe that professional footballers being paid a fortune and through training every day of the year don't have the nouse to move 10yards to the left or right to collect a pass in space but rather choose to stand in a line.

The system works fine in theory.

Our players are just dogshite and not smart enough to play it. You need flexible, intelligent players to create the right movement and fill in the gaps. We have maybe 2.
Click to expand...

Do you think we need..............Spucas??
 
Bluff City Red said:
Think you have to throw Sissoko in there as well, 2 players of steel, 1 of passing class, and the driving force of Gerrard.... those were simpler times! <laugh>

I think we have been missing that trick for a long time in terms of a steel player through the middle. Lucas is very good there but as Gerrez said, with Rodgers system it should probably be two DM. Only Lucas can do that at the moment. Should have looked at Sissoko, Matuidi, Diame and at least picked up one of them on the cheap.

I also think it is a case we have a lot of young midfielders and we also have midfielders who are not up to the grade ( some already got shipped out).

I still think we need new defenders to challenge/straight in to the starting team. Think that has become very stagnant as of late as well.
Click to expand...

Bluff City Red said:
Think you have to throw Sissoko in there as well, 2 players of steel, 1 of passing class, and the driving force of Gerrard.... those were simpler times! <laugh>

I think we have been missing that trick for a long time in terms of a steel player through the middle. Lucas is very good there but as Gerrez said, with Rodgers system it should probably be two DM. Only Lucas can do that at the moment. Should have looked at Sissoko, Matuidi, Diame and at least picked up one of them on the cheap.

I also think it is a case we have a lot of young midfielders and we also have midfielders who are not up to the grade ( some already got shipped out).

I still think we need new defenders to challenge/straight in to the starting team. Think that has become very stagnant as of late as well.
Click to expand...

FFS <doh>

I watched the LFC TV channel after the game last night and they had the Anfield game against Arsenal on from 2005-6 season. We had Reina, RB?, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard, Morientes, Fowler and Kewell. the midfield trio were awesome and completely dominated that area of the field, Alonso was pure class! We even had Mascherano waiting to come in too. But what really got me going was hearing the crowd singing...

[video=youtube;ayivhplxuwM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ayivhplxuwM[/video]
 
Bluff City Red said:
Was it Kenny first half season that he had Lucas and Spearing in there with Meireles and Gerrard in front? Or was it when Adam got injured he got a lot of time and did alright.
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His first half season, when we were 2nd in form for the run in and massively moved up the table. Lucas and Spearing in a 4-2-3-1 sytem.
 
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