Match Day Thread Middlesbrough v Norwich City. Sat 21st Nov ko 1500 hrs

Much of it has to do with confidence. We had a tough run of games at the start of last season and that was compounded by injuries, especially at CB. Sheffield United had an less challenging start and avoided injuries, allowing confidence to build. This year they're off to a bad start and have only one point from nine games, which is sapping confidence. Confidence is critical to success at every level.

Injuries are another factor. We currently have 7 players out and possibly Hugill now as well, which limits DF's choices and perhaps accounts for how close the games have been all season. In spite of that we're 6 games unbeaten with 5 of those wins.

 

This reminds me of the season we went down under Worthington. Four teams got stranded at the bottom, including us, and three of them were going to go down. In the end West Brom survived and Southampton and Palace went down with us, I think.

 

Sky called it 'survival Sunday'.
And we caved in in abject fashion and lost 6 - 0 at Fulham

 

Which is exactly what I was calling for last season -- and was accused by all and sundry of advocating a return to "boring, Hughton-style" football. And when DF did finally start trying to address the imbalance, there was no shortage of people on here (not you though Rick) blaming that shift for our failure to survive.

 

It's relatively boring compared to 18/19. I see we are now virtually even money to go up. The four strandees at the bottom demonstrate the huge gap in ability in that division. It is quite possible that our 21 points last season will see someone survive come May.

 

Rick summed up perfectly why we struggled last season in his last post and also goes on to make a valid comparison with Sheffield U.
As you are someone who likes to think they have all the answers, why do you think the Blades are struggling so much this season ?

 

A little aggressive IMHO. Presumably we are all friends on here. Well not Duncan obviously.

 

I love you all.
It would be a long,boring day without you all

 

One factor to consider is how a team relies upon and feeds off the fans. How often in past seasons have we seen Norwich dragged over the finish line by the crowd roaring them on? I think in tight grounds such as Carrow Road it does help the smaller clubs pick up points against more skilful opposition that are not used to the atmosphere.

 

Rather than "perfect", Rick's summary omits to mention what IMO was actually the major factor contributing to our demise, DF's reluctance to alter how we played despite the steady accumulation of evidence that we were ill-equipped to succeed in the EPL playing as we had done, successfully, in the Championship. That was why I consistently criticised DF last season, and why I have scarcely uttered one word of criticism this season. We were promised that "lessons had been learnt", and in several respects they clearly have.

As for Sheffield Utd, their bad start and resulting lack of confidence are not an explanation; the question is why they have had such a bad start and thus had their confidence dented. I haven't seen their games or studied their stats, so I have no view as to the answer.

 

I do not necessarily disagree with you, but the major flaw with this view robbie, if I may, is it assumes that DF was reluctant. I do not think we know that - maybe he did want to change it up - and we changed formation enough to think that he did, including playing three centre-halves at times. Frankly, I do not think it was as easy as clicking your fingers.

I cannot think of many successful teams which have had regular changes at centre-half. I mean that across all the leagues - even European. Teams which have regular injuries at centre half often slip up. Manchester City winning in the 18-19 season is the only one which springs to mind right now, but even then Laporte played 35/38 matches (I looked that up...)

If it were possible to pay for a reasonably good centre half who never got injured, I'd mortgage the ground for them.

 

(sorry Dunc, can't resist )

 

Made me chuckle too - sorry Dunc. He took it well though, knows it's a joke as we love him really

 

I deliberately used the word "reluctant', having rejected "refused", because DF didn't always "refuse" to adopt a different approach. But he only did it when he felt his hand was forced e.g. by who we were playing (most notably Man City). Put another way, DF had so much respect for certain opponents that he was prepared to do what he kept on saying he couldn't do, namely "change how we play". His constant refrain was that we had a team built to play a certain way, and for all the better quality of opponents in the EPL as opposed to the Championship, "we can do no other". But when Man City turned up, we did different. My opinion was and still is that, had we we shown a similar level of respect to every team, including those around us in the table, we might well have survived. Instead of which we ran out as though we were facing Championship teams, and ended up with egg all over our faces.
I remember him saying, quite soon after the resumption of the season, that our only chance was "to go all out for" the first goal. I felt like saying "Wait a minute! Didn't we score first against Man City at Carrow Road?" There's no issue about the importance of the first goal in the EPL; the issue was what way of playing would give us the best chance of getting it. I haven't got the stats for how many times we scored first last season, but I doubt if it would support DF's view that "going all out for the first goal" was the best way of getting it.

 

Speak for yourself!

 

fine, I’m afraid I cannot agree though because I am not sure how you can claim to be sure you know Farke’s was reluctant (let alone refused). Maybe he was maybe he wasn’t.

The main thing I disagree about, though, is that we had egg on our faces. That only happened because Covid hit us just as we were finding form and settling a team. We more than matched up in most matches (and actually even after the season resumed at times looked OK) even with a significantly weaker squad.

 

Though DF did show a reluctance to change at times, much of the time his choices were limited by injuries, especially at CB, making it difficult to establish playing partnerships all over the pitch. Though we played well against ManCity, we only had 3 shots on target and they all went in. That doesn't happen very often.

DF spoke about playing 3 at the back in the pre-season, but the reality was that we seldom had 3 CBs available. Since Godfrey left we've had the same experienced CB partnership with the exception of Swansea, where Zimbo came in for the injured Gibson. For me, Gibson has been the difference. He's left footed, calm and positions himself well, seldom being caught out. He's also excellent at taking the ball forward without taking risks, which couldn't always be said of Godfrey. Ben will become a very good player, he's just not there yet.

 

The win over Man City was a one off. It was at the height of our injury crisis and very much "backs to the wall" , As is the case sometimes in such situations we were able to perform heroics on the day, scoring from every chance that we created. Furthermore, we caught Man City on a off day. And I agree with Rob, I can't think of too many occasions when we ended up with egg on our faces. Admittedly, after the restart , we performed poorly in the league and appeared to be a team devoid of confidence. The lack of home support appeared to affect us more than it did other teams and perhaps, given our precarious position, we were more reliant on our fans than other teams.