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Mick and Stopme's wet dream come true

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Toby, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

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    Close, but what I mean is his opinions have been formed, without him being aware of it, by ****s whose intentions are to confuse and misinform people who read economic books etc.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  2. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    Quoting people is partly me wanting to give credit to where I got certain ideas, and it's partly lending authority to the ideas I want to espouse (because no **** bestows authority on my opinions). But aye, I've come to realise that flogging the ideas as your own original ideas at all times might be a better solution for ego building - even if it is a bit of intellectual property theft.

    Anyway... here's quote from the cognitive scientist Steven Pinker which backs me up on idea stealing <whistle>

     
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  3. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    That's a bit condescending. If I'm looking for ideas I don't stick to dogmatists - for instance two books that have massively influenced my thinking on economics are Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom and Michael Sandel's The Moral Limit of Markets - Friedman argues from the Libertarian Right and Sandel takes on some of his ideas from the Rawlsian Left. I've taken ideas from both sides, and found myself a comfortable 'middle' position (which is still pro-markets, because of the utility of the market - even if I do have big sympathies towards Rawlsian egalitarianism).
     
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  4. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    I don't see the harm in giving credit to the people whose ideas you agree with? Isn't that what you do when writing a thesis?
     
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  5. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what's influenced you Michael. That's the point. You think you understand what has influenced you but you don't. None of us do any more. That's why you shouldn't read books on economics and politics. Trust me.
     
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  6. Deleted 1

    Deleted 1 Well-Known Member
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    No - you're supposed to change the words around a little bit and claim that they're your own. You need to be careful with sceintific ones though though - I once changed the sequence of a couple of the equations in Einstein's theory of relativity and, unbeknown to me, someone tried to put it into practice. Blew the roof off the science lab <doh>
     
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  7. ManDingo 20"/20"

    ManDingo 20"/20" MDMA Guru

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    I don't entirely buy that. It has some substance but lacks a lot as well.

    All ideas, at one time or another, had to be original. Obviously a great many of those were improved on by others down the years but there still had to have been a beginning somewhere.
     
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  8. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    Nah, go back to 2010 on this board and watch me **** over socialist ideas, despite the fact that in practice I was still a rampant capitalist - something has changed my articulated opinions in a relatively short period - and I've a fairly good idea what (growing up, to be a miserable and sober realist, mostly). Plus I've spouted Rawlsian ideas a few times on here (such as I used the 'veil of ignorance' to defend a universal National Health Service - which was a pull back from me earlier wanting to privatise health...). These thought experiments are necessary for fixing ingrained bias, or getting overly excited about new ideas - and certainly politicians or political leaders who haven't thought these things through are dangerous.
     
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  9. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

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    Without knowing it you've just proved my point. As I said, you think you know what's influenced you but you don't. You're just going to have to trust me on this point.
     
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  10. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    I simply can't just trust you - you need to prime me with proof of authority on the subject first, certainly before blind trust can be established (if it ever should).

    The only argument I can think on your side is the various theories of conciousness - for example, how there's lots of evidence that our brain makes the decision before our concious mind does - and our concious mind makes an excuse, after the fact, for why the brain did what it did, or thought what it thought. Even if this is true it does not mean to say you can not consciously train your unconscious brain to make better choices by practising logical thoughts. I now program code in my job almost robotically without engaging my concious brain that much - because at one point I sat down and consciously struggled through the learning exercises.
     
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  11. pompeymeowth

    pompeymeowth Prepare for trouble x
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    Someone I know in A&E at QAH Portsmouth said that a person arrived the other day, wanting to be treated because they had hiccups.
     
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  12. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

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    No, that's not what I mean. I don't mean trust me in general. I mean trust me on this point.
     
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  13. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    "Truuuust me" said the snake in The Jungle Book.
     
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  14. SUPERNORWICH 23

    SUPERNORWICH 23 SUPERNORWICH

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    The Bible Dev show some respect mate
     
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  15. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Both are works of fiction so you can see how easy it is to get confused.
     
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  16. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Adam Smith's.

    Which makes you not far off being a Marxist, except you obviously don't recognise the fact human beings achieve far more when they act collectively than when it's every **** for himself.
     
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  17. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    Tell that to collectivist China of 30 years ago vs market reforming China of today.

    please log in to view this image
     
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  18. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Markets are a fact of life, most left wing thinkers and political parties recognise that. But they work best when they serve the many not the few; and to do that they have to be regulated. Even the uber-capitalists yanks are aware of that; unfortunately the current economic and political orthodoxy in Europe is to let the rich crooked 1% **** all over the rest of us in the supposed interests of a market that enslaves just as much as it liberates.
     
    #118
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  19. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

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    Mick thinks they deserve to be rich because they're better than us, even though most of them are just using family money and pulling up the bridge behind them so no one else can ever make it.
     
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  20. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    I would agree in theory - only in practice regulation tends to distort the market, it creates entry barriers for competitors and shores up monopolies. If I want to start a new mobile network I can't just stick a mast up outside my house and take it from there, I need to pay a couple of billion to Ofcom to buy a piece of the spectrum pie. No doubt Ofcom have good reasons for protecting the radio spectrum and the Government think they have good reasons for extracting as much money as they can from big corporations who can afford the couple of billion - but then politics creeps into corporatism when their interests are aligned, and you end up with the crony-Capitalism we have today.

    I could give a dozen other examples of this - and I've already previously given you an example of William Hill bragging that the new UK gambling tax would push small players out the market removing competition. Big corporations love a regulation...
     
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