The problem with Cisse is that he's been left out tactically by Pardew. Although he's included in the XI he's being utilised as a deeper striker than last season due to the early goals scored by Demba Ba. We're also playing 4-4-2 rather than last seasons 4-3-3 to accommodate Cisse and Ba in the same team as central strikers. Ba was playing wide left when Cisse arrived in January which he wasn't happy with. It's clear to all that 4-4-2 doesn't suit Ba or Cisse which is why Cisse was moved to a wide right role in our last game vs Wigan. The sooner someone activates Ba's release clause the better then we can buy another attacking midfielder than compliments Cisse from the left like Ben Arfa from the right.
Why? Ba is more consistant then cisse and even when isnt scoring, his work in setting up others or creating space, makes him the better player. Cisse had a puple patch and scored some amazing goals yet he looks like a pub player this season!
Cisse created quite a stir in his first season. As such, a lot of work will have been done by opposition coaches on how to stop him. So, I'm not entirely sure that being played in the wrong system is the whole reason he's not scoring this season. To continue to thrive in the Premiership once you are a known threat, you have to have that something extra about you. I'm not saying Cisse hasn't, but I'm really not so sure. It's why I've never really understood why some on this forum had such a downer on Defoe. The guy has been banging in goals consistently in the Premiership, wherever and whenever he's played. Opposition coaches & defences know all about him - still he continues to score. There ain't too many of those around. All credit to AVB for recognising the potential and giving him his head. We are seeing the results of that insight this season.
Ba is very selfish and rarely creates anything for anyone else. Ba in fact is the only player in the EPL to score over 4 goals and not to have assisted any. With regards to Cisse being a pub player, you need to read my first post on this thread. Cisse is very much a team player and it was that team ethic and spirit that helped us to 5th last season. To most people who don't watch him for 90 mins every week, Cisse looks like a flash in the pan but you only have to listen to what Matt Le Tissier was saying when we were playing Wigan on MNF, like many other commentators this season. ''Ba and Cisse are making the same runs'', ''Ba and Cisse get in each others way'' ETC. ETC. Cisse is the better of the two for sure it's just that Ba is selfish and seems to be trying to prove a point that he is actually the better one, after Cisse took the limelight off of him last season.
No way should we even think of taking Michu even for half that price. We are great at taking players who show promise at other clubs scoring at will and then they struggle with us. Even this season we bought Dempsey and Siggurdson who are not scoring like at Fulham or Swansea.
mr toon, it sounds like your being overly harsh towards ba, mainly as you prefer cisse as last season when cisse went on that goal scoring run, while ba couldnt find the net, it was ba doing all the hard work to help cisse. This year ba is again on form and all strikers meed to be selfish at times, that is what gets the goals. cisse has lost his confidence and to make up for that he will be trying harder in other areas. much like torres who lost his confidence in front of goal but still works hard for the team. BA for me is the better premier league player, while cisse make look to have more natural ability from his run last year, so far it looks to just be a purple patch.
OK. £30 Million is too much. I agree. BUT.....What if he was free?!? http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=1256971&cc=5739 i do wonder why we won't take this chances these days. I know we've had a bloated squad of late and needed to offload, but I do feel we miss out on these kinds of opportunities often. It would be nice to see us acquire a "star" or two on the cheap just because we scout well, as well as going for these big signings that we seem to always talk about these days. No?
Like I've already said that seems to have gone a miss. I watch NUFC for 90 mins every week and the amount of times Ba and Cisse have occupied the same piece of turf is very frustrating. Cisse has got into some great positions, like last season but he seems happy to do what is best for the team and yield to the selfish Ba. To someone who hasn't watched every minute of NUFC's games this year I can see how Cisse looks like a flash in the pan but Ba almost tripped over Cisse for our second goal against Wigan and even Matt Le Tissier noticed that Cisse and Ba were making the same runs, like many other pundits and commentators in previous games too. Cisse isn't trying any harder than last year, in fact he's doing the exact same if the stats are to be believed. Also, I like how you seem to imply that Cisse only scored all those goals last year because of Ba's leg work when in fact NUFC, as a team, covered the most ground of any EPL squad last season, proving that hard work does pay and I can't think of a moment when Ba actually provided a direct assist for a Cisse goal. The back end of last season was the Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye show!! Also, as aforementioned, we are playing a different system this season which is also frustrating because it just doesn't work with Ba and Cisse as central strikers but because of Ba scoring a few early goals, Cisse has been asked to play deeper or wider which has reduced his chances just like Ba at the back end of last season. It's clear that 1 of the 2 (Cisse) needs to be playing centrally with Ben Arfa and (new signing) either side because Ba has made it clear he won't play outside left. Very selfish, is it not? The team played it's best stuff using this set up, yet Ba doesn't want to be part of a winning team, he seemingly wants to win the team games as an individual. Selfish. Now why would anyone involved with a team that catapulted itself to a 5th place finish last term based on the logic of "winning and losing together" want a player who is in it for himself. I can see this post does seem anti-Ba but only when comparing him to Cisse. Ba and Cisse are both clearly good goalscorers when playing centrally as neither have scored (much) when being asked to play a deep or wide role but due to the team mentality Cisse has over Ba, I wouldn't be all that upset to see Ba leave as long as we sign a player in a similar mould to Ben Arfa to operate from the left to compliment Cisse in a 4-3-3/4-2-1-2-1 formation. OR - sign a different style of striker that can work with Cisse in a 4-4-2.Andy Carroll?
MrToontastic, I won't (and haven't) claimed to be analysing Newcastle and every goal scored and watching 90 minutes of all your games, only yourself as a Newcastle fan is in a position to do this, yet you will understand I have an impartial view, while your judgement is possibly clouded by the certain factors surrounding BA, as you mention him being selfish and I doubt his contract issue has helped much, Also, I never implied Cisse only scored tham goals due to BA, yet he was working hard for the team when Cisse was on form, and before Cisse arrived BA was on a great goal scoring run himself, so overall BA has been the most impressive player, as aside from that purple patch of Cisse last year, he has looked out of sorts in terms of goal scoring and converting chances. Lets not forget, CIsse nearly passed out at the thought of taking a penalty at the start of the season, and duly missed, that isn't a good sign, as any top striker that is struggling for goals should be wanting to take penalties, but Cisse had to be forced. Anyhow, until we see Cisse reproduce the form he showed last year, we won't know if he is as good as you say.
Well like I've said mate, Cisse is playing no worse overall, he's just not scoring due to his deeper or wider role. Even Ba couldn't score in a similar role so it's not just a purple patch as you say. Both strikers have scored freely when playing in a team set up around them. Cisse, apart from a poor penalty miss, is by no means out of sorts. By your logic I could quite easily say Ba has had two purple patches for NUFC but when looking into it it's obvious why. The only other thing I can point towards is that when Ba plays centrally its him who grabs the vast majority of the goals. Whereas when Cisse plays centrally two or three others score more often and we have won more games employing this system. Due to a more team mentality. I have no doubts that when Ba sorts out his contract elsewhere, Cisse will become the focal point and the team will be better off. Similar is Andy Carroll, brilliant in our system under Hughton but ****e at Liverpool but top notch at Weat Ham in a similar system. Cisse and Ba are out and strikers asking either of them to play a deeper role is clearly not good for either. Just the same as Andy Carroll is a rough and tumble target man
So why has Pardew changed the system if Cisse is more effective through the middle? as if that's the case then questions need to be asked of Pardew (who i personally don't rate). As for Cisse being out of sorts, I have watched some of your highlights this year and seen him not just miss the penalty, but complete sitters, he looked a different player to last year and this wasn't just due to operating in another role, but looked shot of confidence when presented with chances in front of goal. If I was Pardew and realised Cisse & BA can't play together in a 4-4-2 then it would make sense to use the better player out the two upfront and employ two wingers/inside forwards, rather then ask one of them to play in a role which doesn't suit them, but again I don't rate Pardew and unless his hand is forced by injury then he should revert back to the system that was used last year.
Do you read anything I write? I've been over the system change!! The change in system from Pardew is an attempt to play both Ba and Cisse centrally this has affected Cisse because Ba is more selfish. The only reason Cisse is playing the deeper, wider role is because Ba is scoring. It happened last season when Ba wasn't scoring and Cisse was. We've lined up vs Fulham tonight the same as Wigan with Cisse wide and Ba through the middle. Also, Cisse hasn't missed a sitter at all this year. It appears Pardew realises they can't play 4-4-2 together so we've reverted to 4-3-3 the lat two games. Lets see how it goes!!
Ha, I was following another thread at the same time so forgive me if I never picked up on all your points. Anyhow Pardew isn't exactly the most tactically astute manager and now that your run of luck last season has ended, then
just seen you typed this Now i'm afraid you're lying as yes he has missed a sitter, yet clearly you only see the good in cisse, hence why you want BA gone.
Taken from BBC, The 433 didn't last long! Anyhow Mr toon, I'll discuss this again with you later in the season and see if Cisse is as good as he was last year and maybe BA will be in a spurs shirt
Quote from BBC not quite right as we reverted straight back to 4-4-2 mid way in the first half. Ba and Cisse playing centrally. Would also love to see a video or article of these Cisse sitters?!? He's not had a clear cut chance to miss this season due to how deep he's been asked to play. Even Anita was more advanced tonight vs Fulham Although this was interesting and kind of proves my point, yet again
