Messi appreciation thread.

[Theoski09]

Love everyone talking about Maradona and Pele like they've seen every game they've ever played.

True. But like I say, all of this talk from everyone is just theory.

What I will definetly say about Messi is he is the best Barcelona player of all time. The record he has proves that. He is also the best player in the best team. You can only really say what he is and isn't based on fact.

 

[nufc1991]

I've said this so many times before, this is all about what generation you were brought up in. My Grandad says's Pele is the greatest ever, my Dad say's Maradona, I'd Say Messi. This is because we've grown up watching those players, and seen them at their best, doing things no other players you are watching can do.

My Dad's starting to come round to Messi a little though. He say's he is the best since Maradona, but still think's he falls short. He says what Maradona did for a mediocre Argentina at the 1986 World Cup, and what he did at Napoli, will be very hard to eclipse.

 

[Colly NUFC]

This whole "he must prove himself by winning the World Cup" is such a load of bullshit it really is.

No team is a one man team. Messi has 10 other players around him and unfortunately, he cannot do a thing about them. No matter how good Messi is, if the other 10 players aren't good enough, then the team isn't going to win it. Why should the lack of quality in those other players have any influence over how good Messi is as an individual? It makes no sense.

I think Messi will easily become the best player in history. A lot of people forget that he's only 24, and if most other players are anything to go by, he hasn't even reached his peak yet, and could have another 8 or 9 years in him. He'll probably only improve further and smash every record going.

As for Argentina, they could probably actually do quite well, but they need a better manager who understands how to get the best out of Messi. Atm it looks like they're trying to get the team to play like Barca for the purposes of Messi, but they simply don't have the players for it. Argentina might push for the World Cup in the coming years but they need to get that sorted and also choose the right defenders and midfielders, which is a department they're lacking in.

I put this on another forum this morning, we're clearly on the same wavelength...

Much as an Argentina World Cup win would probably cement him in the medias eyes I'm not convinced its essential. For all their abilities neither Pele, Maradona or Zidane ever won a World Cup on their own, and if Argentina keep giving the management to mentalists who play Jonas Gutierrez right back because '****, he has to play somewhere' Messi won't be able to. Or does he have to do the Napoli Maradona thing where he has to win the Premiership with Swansea to be the best ever?

He's the focal point of the best club team in the world, has been for years, and is 24 years old. If he keeps going how he is he has to be up there.

 

[Not_cricket]

Best player I ever watched was the Best. Best by name and best by skill

 

[Sewelly]

If you want to look at individual players, in the way your suggesting, than dont ignore Cristiano Ronaldo. As an individual he has everything you want. Everything. You were to put all the things you would want physically, talent wise and statistics as to the perfect player...he would show up on your screen. However, nobody in their right mind would pick him over Messi....because of what Messi can do in that Barca team. You put Messi in the Madrid team, he wouldn't be as good. You put Ronaldo in that Barca team, his level wouldn't drop. All theory obviously, but deciding who is the best is theory after all.

Ronaldo isn't on Messi's level. Messi's goalscoring record is a bonus to his phenomenal all-round game in terms of dribbling, vision, passing, creativity and dictating of games on a consistent basis. Ronaldo is a fantastic goalscorer and flat-track bully but to say he has everything is simply not true, his footballing brain and influence on games isn't on anywhere near the same level as Messi's, or Zidane's for example. That's why he disappears every time the Clasico comes round.

He was a better allround footballer when he was at Man United, these days he's sacrificed that to be the goalscoring machine that he is now. Gerd Muller was a fantastic goalscorer but nobody would put him up there with Pele or Maradona.

 

[Colly NUFC]

Best player I ever watched was the Best. Best by name and best by skill

You must log in or register to see images

Cheers.

 

[Deleted #]

Love how when everybody gives their opinion, Chappaz always seems to tell them that theirs is a load of s**t, even though it is an opinion and a topic where there is no right or wrong so to speak.

 

[Chappaz]

Of course its plucked out of thin air. Its all theory. Truth is it's impossible to judge.

My point is it's too early to say he is the best of all time.

Yes it is, but that's just down to how we see him perform over the next 8-10 years or so, not down to waiting to see whether he wins the World Cup.

Love how when everybody gives their opinion, Chappaz always seems to tell them that theirs is a load of s**t, even though it is an opinion and a topic where there is no right or wrong so to speak.

Because it's a 100% undeniable fact and not an opinion.

Messi is one bloke. The Argentinian team is made up of 11 blokes, so there are 10 other people on the pitch. If they're all not good enough to win the World Cup, regardless of how good Messi is, then why should winning it have any bearing on how good Messi is as an individual player? What can he do about the Argentine's midfield ability, or the defending ability, or even the ability of the goalkeeper? He can't be in 11 places at once and carry a team when there are so many brilliant national teams out there at the moment.

It's simply not a factor which should be taken into account when judging Messi as an individual, and I think that's a complete fact, as anything else makes absolutely no sense. Why should Messi be stripped of the title of the best player in history just because his 10 team mates weren't good enough?

 

[Theoski09]

Yes it is, but that's just down to how we see him perform over the next 8-10 years or so, not down to waiting to see whether he wins the World Cup.



Because it's a 100% undeniable fact and not an opinion.

Messi is one bloke. The Argentinian team is made up of 11 blokes, so there are 10 other people on the pitch. If they're all not good enough to win the World Cup, regardless of how good Messi is, then why should winning it have any bearing on how good Messi is as an individual player? What can he do about the Argentine's midfield ability, or the defending ability, or even the ability of the goalkeeper? He can't be in 11 places at once and carry a team when there are so many brilliant national teams out there at the moment.

It's simply not a factor which should be taken into account when judging Messi as an individual, and I think that's a complete fact, as anything else makes absolutely no sense. Why should Messi be stripped of the title of the best player in history just because his 10 team mates weren't good enough?

You're right in what you're saying on some level about other players letting him down. But that isn't true. Messi has done next to f*ck all as an individual on the international stage. That's my counter argument about that. If Messi scored twice but Argentina lost 3-2 because his teammates were cr*p, then you might have a point. But that has never happened. If anything, Argentina did well up until Germany, despite Messi's lack of contribution with goals.

Another blatant counter argument is that Maradona achieved the exact thing you claim shouldn't make a difference. As an individual, Maradona took a decent Argentina team to World Cup glory, based on his untouchable genius.

Another thing to consider is when we watch Messi do these great things, Maradona has already been there and done it. Messi has the fortune to have watched Maradona and say, I wanna be like that. Maradona was an original. This also goes in his favour.

I hope one day I am writing about how Messi has just won the World Cup and won the best player in the tournament award also has gone to another club and replicated his form to show he doesn't rely on this Barca team in order to perform. Really do.

EDIT: Take away all the trophies the achievements the goals the records....just on blatant talent alone, looking at the clips of Maradona...he still wins. Just. But he is just insane. Out of this world.

Messi = Perfect. Maradona = Out of this world.

 

[Lever Malone]

I think trying to compare players of different eras is impossible. Football evolves over the years and all we can say is a player is the best player of his era but even that would cause constant argument everyone will still have their own opinions.

Who knows if someone like Pele or Puskas or even Stanley Matthews was able to come back and reach the fitness levels or have the training that the professional player of today achieves he may prove to be better than Messi or Ronaldo or anyone else for that matter. I just think, as I say, it is impossible to compare them. All we can do is marvel at the skills they have from whatever era they played in.