I started attending games as a boy in the 90s so didn't live through that level of hooliganism. I'm sure there's a lot of context that it would be hard to explain if you weren't but I'm amazed by the restraint that the authorities showed. Obviously in a microcosm like the video above there aren't nearly enough police to do anything and they would have been in serious danger if they tried but how come there were only that many police officers there, in fact how come away fan were even allowed to attend games if this was going to be the response. I've seen people refer to the police as heavy handed in those situations but faced with that level of problem I'm amazed they weren't firing water cannons and baton rounds.
That was a picnic in the park, 'high spirits' if you like, compared to the organized violence of the '80's, that was far far worse.
It wasn't though was it. I saw some bad things in the 70s, Newcastle fans breaking glasses in the Prince of Wales into holdalls to throw at nice Norwich fans, Chelsea 'fans' totally wrecking the Jolly Malsters the list goes on. I should have been at the Man u game, and how I would have loved to have been decapitated by pieces of asbestos roof sheet thrown from the Barclay, but I was marrying Mrs Gandy that day. I've never forgiven her.
But how was it allowed to get so bad? I understand that for a series of political and economic reasons the 70s and 80s were tough but it in no way excuses the kind of violence and destruction that was prevalent. I can't understand why the response wasn't magnitudes more severe stamping it out early on. Maybe I only veiw it like that now because modern perspectives are tempered by the history of hooliganism, but if there was that level of violence one Saturday at a large number of football grounds one Saturday now I doubt very much that any football would be played the next Saturday.
You missed a trick there Gandy, you should have married her earlier in the day and took her along to the match, a real supporter would have done that... But seriously, I'm not saying that the late '70's weren't bad, our 1978 FA Cup quarter final at Millwall was a bit lively to say the least, but it changed in the '80's, the hooligans were no longer wearing colours so less identifiable by the police, and tooled up, I remember stabbings and slashings at Portman Road, a Stanley knife can do a whole lot of damage in a few seconds... We'll have to agree to disagree, IMO the '80's were far worse.
The coppers were well and truly up for it back then, they'd love the heavey handed approach. I've spoken to a couple of retired coppers who loved football duty so they could mix it up. You used to see the horses deployed move often then to, when you had a row of mounted police moving in you got out of the way ! Today's game gives more power to club stewards with eviction the most common form of punishment but back then if the coppers waded into a stand if it was getting a bit tasty you got dragged out and nicked. I got punched outside the ground by a sixteen year old Villa fan once, I was about fourteen, the coppers nicked him stuck him in the van and carted his arse off the Bethal street. That night they came to my house to get a statement and said his punishment was missing his train home and them calling his father in Birmingham telling him his son had been arrested for hooliganism and that he'd got to drive down 9 o'clock Sunday morning to pick him up from the cells. I should have liked to have been a fly on the wall in that car back to Brum?
my dad still talks of that 78 cup quarter final at the den. the most scared he's ever been at a football match. the worst i have seen was the last game of the season between stoke and cardiff in the late 90s i think. if stoke won they went up, if cardiff lost they went down! cardiff won it right at the end and the whole thing kicked off big style - made national news loads of casualties but impossible for me to compare to earlier decades. the worst i can recall with norwich was at the portaloo in the mid 90s on a friday night i think, and we had a brick come through the train window having already been attacked on the way out. missed my head by about 2 feet. the worst part was there was a copper on the train and he just shrugged his shoulders at me and my friend. i never did tell my mum... she'd have hit the roof!
I saw a six foot wall pushed over that night, broken up and hurled back and forth between Norwich & Ipswich fans that night, it was very scary ! I found myself right in the middle of it purely by accident as we were trying to reach the old civic car park,how the **** no one was killed that night is a mystery .
is that the night in the mid 90s? i think we lost 2-0. all i recall about the game is tarrico scored an absolute peach for ipswich. never saw a wall get knocked down but that would certainly explain all the bricks being thrown!
If anyone wants a (fairly graphic) account of just how bad it used to be, can I recommend the following book. Some of it is so harrowing, it makes me wonder how i ever got to 'support' football at all - but thankfully, in the main, we all seem to have moved on from those dark days of attacks planned with almost military precision http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steaming-Classic-Account-Football-Terraces/dp/1471126048
On that note, I'm just about to finish reading Fever Pitch for the first time. Now, anyone who tells me that football was better back in the time you're all talking about I simply do not believe... I've never stood on terracing at Carrow Road (in fact I've only ever stood on terracing once at all - at Lewes) but it sounds hellish. I wouldn't want to be a football fan if these kind of experiences were the price.
Sorry Hucks but standing on the terraces for me was simply fantastic. I was in the middle pen of the Barclay when Bruce scored the winner against the scum. I don't think that feeling can be described only experienced. You were swept off your feet and literally carried forward back and side ways in pure emotion. The violence I don't miss but the rest was great.
Me too chippy, my mate broke his arm that night when Brucie headed in that late winner. The fool was standing in front of a crush barrier with his arms looped over it, the crowd surged forward and snapped his arm in two. He was in excruciating pain but wouldn't leave before the final whistle. Just as well really as I wouldn't have left before the end he'd have had to seek medical attention all by himself
Just found this image on the web, Steve Coppell taking a corner for Man Utd at The River End. If it was that infamous Saturday, I was standing on that terrace. The half-time scoreboard I was reffering to earlier can be seen in the background. please log in to view this image
We were in the middle section of the old Barclay in the early 80's exchanging pleasantries with the Norwich lads the other side of the fence when two OB made the mistake of chasing some Norwich lad who had been spitting, back into the main mob, they got battered to ****, then a police helmet got tossed around, eventually being filled with piss and thrown in our general direction. The same night a mate of mine got jumped by three OB and dragged out, he'd been standing beside me doing **** all, I saw him the next day and he'd been charged with spitting at the Norwich lot, which he most definitely hadn't been. He'd been 'advised' to plead guilty as the magistrates always believe the police, and also that by pleading guilty he'd only get a £25 fine at most So on the day at Norwich Mags Court he pleaded guilty and got hit with a £375 fine for something he didn't do!
Great thread and good post Welly! The most scared I have ever been at a football match was that infamous 1978 FA Cup tie at Millwall. They took thuggery and barbarism to a whole new level. I remember seeing Uncle Bobby after the game and giving his post match interview and I've never seen him so upset and angry! I might be wrong but I think he got fined by the FA for those famous comments he made about 'turning the flame throwers on them!' I also remember being at Luton the night Millwall fans started chucking seats onto the pitch and basically smashing up the place! My uncle lived in Luton and invited us along to that game! The 80s were a really bad horrendous time and as Welly says in those days the thugs got better organised and weren't so obvious to spot! I recommend anyone to watch the film 'the Firm' starring a very young Gary Oldman!
Fair enough, I'm sure that was amazing! Just seems that Hillsborough was a disaster waiting to happen though and the stomach churning thought is that it could so, so, so, so, so easily have been you, or my Dad, or any Norwich fan aged 30 or older (although I appreciate that Norwich don't perhaps have the same volume of support as Liverpool). The other thing that has struck me, apart from the danger of terracing, though, is the fact that there appeared to be pre-meditated violence at EVERY game, or at least at Highbury. Doesn't seem to have been a very enjoyable time to be a football fan, the late 70s and 80s.
I wasn't at the Millwall match, I was far too young to go, but the problem was that our main lot decided to go into the Cold Blow Lane End, the Millwall home end, Frank Harper, the actor who played Billy Bright in 'The Football Factory' and well known Millwall fan was in the CBL that day and recounts it as that he was never so scared at a football match when our lot went into their end, but you're never gonna get away with taking the piss at Millwall and every Ipswich fan paid for it that day. The remake of 'The Firm' is better than the original, great music and shows the casual fashion of the day better, but IMO the best film of the genre is 'Away Days', a nasty (but very good) film about stanley knife wielding ****s, that's a better representation of those days.
