And how much time do we spend apologising to people who have been imprisoned for years for a crime they didn't commit?
Mboyo
- Thread starter The greengrocer
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
- Status
And how much time do we spend apologising to people who have been imprisoned for years for a crime they didn't commit?
Yeah, in a sense it is. At the end of the day I don't want my club tainted with his crime, basically because it associates me with that crime in a round-about way, and also because I think the club would avoid a lot of potentially damaging publicity by giving him a miss.
There is a world of difference between that and wanting him dead! - though 3 years doesn't sound long enough for someone who played a pro-active role in a violent, sexual crime of any nature, if indeed he did. For all you or I know, he could simply have been acting as lookout, or there at the time unable to prevent it and convicted under a law of common purpose - as unlikely as that seems - but without more detail it is not possible to make a reasonable or accurate judgement. The only real way to do that is to dig up the court records and review the specific evidence against him in particular - something the press won't do, particularly if it gets in the way of a good headline.
No, we convict on the basis of reasonable doubt but also accept the system is fallible and therefore have checks and balances in place, and compensation in certain circumstances for those wrongly convicted.
There are no checks and balances on a noose - there is no such thing as a flawless conviction.
If you believe life is cheap enough to allow one innocent person die for the crime of another that for me negates all your claims of sympathy for any victim. Your motive appears to be revenge at any cost. Miscarriages of justice happen in all systems - even those with a high bar of evidence and those which use "scientific" data as this too is almost always open to interpretation. It is inevitable the state will kill innocent people if C.P. is re-introduced, in your and my name - i cannot consent to that and never will, even if it means having to accept abhorrent individuals as part of society. There is also the possibility of abuse of such a system by those in positions of authority - you must trust the police, judiciary, legal profession and politicians, both now and at any point in the in the future a hell of a lot more than I do to be calling for it back.
Having said that, I am quite happy to see much harsher sentences introduced for certain crimes, particularly those which are violent, exploitative or sexually motivated - just as long as there is always the option of a re-trial or sentencing review in the event of any new evidence coming to light at any point during the tenure of the sentence.
When they die in Jail ?
....or perhaps when we reverse the sentence of Timothy Evans or Derek Bentley.....
....oh, wait a minute, we can't....
Because I couldn't give a a **** what you think.
Besides, you can make me **** off by utilising the "block" facility, which is precisely what I intend to do with you.
Byeee....!
****er!
Besides, you can make me **** off by utilising the "block" facility, which is precisely what I intend to do with you.
Byeee....!
****er!
For those advocating rehabilitation. That's fine, but it's not the function of a football club.
For those against capital punishment for fear innocents get hung, released rapists and killers have been known to attack more innocent victims, do they not count?
For those against capital punishment for fear innocents get hung, released rapists and killers have been known to attack more innocent victims, do they not count?
So, now you are arguing for TDP for serial killers out of compassion - that really is ****ed up!
No - let the ****er serve his time, and in the meantime be studied like a lab-rat to expand the knowledge-base surrounding these bastards motives and actions.
And the point still stands that in any system of C.P. miscarriages of justice are inevitable and will result in innocent victims of the system as no system is infallible.
I don't see much difference between a child raping a child and an adult raping an adult. I'm not sure we should be letting any rapist or violent criminal into the country if we can possibly help it in all honesty and have never argued we should. I don't want us to sign him remember!
No - let the ****er serve his time, and in the meantime be studied like a lab-rat to expand the knowledge-base surrounding these bastards motives and actions.
And the point still stands that in any system of C.P. miscarriages of justice are inevitable and will result in innocent victims of the system as no system is infallible.
I don't see much difference between a child raping a child and an adult raping an adult. I'm not sure we should be letting any rapist or violent criminal into the country if we can possibly help it in all honesty and have never argued we should. I don't want us to sign him remember!
Of course they count, no-one has said they don't. Have you considered the wishes of victims - do all of them want their assailants dead? I'm not convinced they do.
Is the risk of abuse of the system and innocents hanging any less?
Absolutely not in my view.
I guess the answer is to lock 'em up for longer and any chance of re-offending they don't get out!
The voice of reason.
You will, of course, be shouted down and accused of everything ranging from "loving" the perpetrator to namby pamby liberalism. Your mental state, morals and sanity will be questioned, and some will froth at the mouth and threaten never to come on here/watch Hull City/speak to you again. Enjoy.
I'm on your side (which will only make it worse for you).
No because unlike Mboyo that list of turds have either NOT apologised for there crimes or are still practicing them you Muppet
An interesting read, guess I'm just a bleeding heart liberal, but I kind of feel this guy got a rough deal from the "never wrong "hang 'em high"" brigade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
In principle I don't have a problem with him being employed in any profession, I would like to say I would accept him here. The problem is the negative publicity we would attract by doing so and the fact part of the job description of first-team striker for my club is to be idolized and adored. Whilst I do feel he should be allowed to live a productive and useful life having served his punishment and gone through rehab, I guess something sticks in the throat about somebody with such a history being idolized at my club. I'm not convinced reform comes hand in hand with absolute forgiveness without first earning it and a building of trust. Perhaps my rational response does not necessarily match my emotional one? I'm being a bit nimbyish I know.
However, I'm a subjective human being and reserve the right to be irrational where I choose. The main reason I think, is to do with the potential damage to the image and marketability of the club in the eyes of the public. If I were employing anyone in such a public role I would think twice about anyone with a past as murky as this - especially if I were trying to establish a brand identity as we really should be.
However, I'm a subjective human being and reserve the right to be irrational where I choose. The main reason I think, is to do with the potential damage to the image and marketability of the club in the eyes of the public. If I were employing anyone in such a public role I would think twice about anyone with a past as murky as this - especially if I were trying to establish a brand identity as we really should be.
I'm glad that I don't live in the same world as some on here.
Nothing I have read leads me to believe that the crime of rape is not considered by all to be anything other than abhorrent.
I personally do not believe in the death penalty and I don't know if I would want anyone accused and convicted of serious crimes to play for the club. But sport is a means of rehabilitation and someone who has left one life behind has to have some element of understanding. I would be torn, support a player for turning his life around after being involved is a disgusting crime or not supporting him because of what he did. I don't know, I would like to think I would forgive but not forget. It is simply a choice that I don't think I can honestly make.
Nothing I have read leads me to believe that the crime of rape is not considered by all to be anything other than abhorrent.
I personally do not believe in the death penalty and I don't know if I would want anyone accused and convicted of serious crimes to play for the club. But sport is a means of rehabilitation and someone who has left one life behind has to have some element of understanding. I would be torn, support a player for turning his life around after being involved is a disgusting crime or not supporting him because of what he did. I don't know, I would like to think I would forgive but not forget. It is simply a choice that I don't think I can honestly make.
Pride in your club can also be realised by it showing compassion and social tolerance. as I have repeatedly stated, the guy was a child himself, his growth and maturity far from complete, his circumstances extreme by our standards (mine at least!); if he was a mature man of a certain nature, let's say Marlon King, then I would agree with you entirely and have stated so long before this issue. I also advocate capital punishment, as I said when the beheading took place in London.
One of my points throughout - condemnation without qualification or fact. Rape by anyone, of anyone is abhorrent, but trying to understand mitigating circumstances is beneficial to future prevention and accepting a young boy can, possibly, be rehabilitated is essential to civilisation.
But, Craig, there are plenty of cases that show example of the rehabilitation of offenders; it is not an opinion.
Do we? These are people, who as adults, planned and killed children; you continue to use poor comparisons.
Only in so much as it (rehabilitation) is a function of society, of which the football club is an integral part. It is a civilised thing that comes from your humanity. The owners of any football club have their own moral compass and I respect their right to be guided that.
It's quite simple, apart from a small minority on this forum, jb rectum and his liberal cronies, I don't see any other support for signing this convicted rapist so why don't the normal people email Ann Holland at City and voice your concerns at this possible signing? We are in the majority, rectum isn't
I can understand this, but believe the individual supporter should be able to manage this for themselves - the people of Belgium seem to have coped.
Again there is the strong inference that morals have a monetary value in sport.
Please show me where I advocate signing him - I've repeatedly stated I wouldn't. Daft twat.
- Status