Match day vs Burnley

Yeah I’ve never understood that either. The rationale is that a crowded box makes it harder for the other team but leaving a player who can’t defend up front and dragging out at least one extra player of theirs makes sense to me.

 

That's very romantic.

It really depends where you want us to be, actually competing to win the league and CL or competing on an Arsenal/Spurs level and seeing top 4 as some indicator of success?

If the latter then fine, that's where we are. No more money needs to be spent.

If, like me, you'd rather the former then this is where I get what Mourinho is saying.

When you consider the team/spine that Guardiola and Mourinho inherited respectively and then consider that, even then, Guardiola has since spent double what Mourinho has then you realise that Jose has a point.

We will need to spend big or they leave us well behind forever.

 

By the way, if they don't spend the money on players the Glazers pocket it.

The Glazers.

Who have done the sum total of absolutely jack ****ing **** for Manchester United FC and its supporters. **** all.

I think I'd rather it be spent on players, thanks.

 

United has always operated on the basis of promoting real young in house talent boosted by buying in top world class players. We were really lucky to have had 5 top class youth players coming through at the same time thereby sorting us out for at least a decade and more. We are promoting youth and have promoted the likes of Rashford and lingard.

It is interesting that the RS are now w***ing themselves silly over the purchase of a defender for £75m. He is yet again being labelled the messiah and will solve all their problems and will bring them loads of trophies. Just like Kloppyflop was supposed to bring that first premiership title The RS are trying to buy the title in competition with City. Good luck to them as they find that one player is not sufficient. They need a new goalkeeper, 2 better full backs, and a fully revamped defensive midfield. Will they at last end that 30 year long wait? Unlikely.

 

Chief, but we have spent. We have spent in the last five years more than we have ever in any five year period, even with inflation adjusted.

However, the problem is that we have very little to show for all the spending. United's problem right now has nothing to do with lack of funds. It is, therefore, insane to even use City as a benchmark. I mean, f* City!!! City's spending had nothing to do with how we performed at Liverpool. Their spending had nothing to do with how we allowed them to walk over us few weeks ago. For me, pointing to spending by Mourinho is simply straw clutching and his inability to be resourceful.

 

Guardiola has been remarkably efficient with the money he’s spent. A couple of duds last season but not for big money (relatively speaking) but every £20m+ signing has had a meaningful impact.

Maybe it’s the scouting but Mourinho isn’t capable of similar IMO.

 

He bought three full backs and they were all £50 million plus.

Stones = £50 million plus.

Goalkeeper - £35 million plus.

Sorry, how's that efficient? It's throwing money at it till you end up with the squad you want.

 

Wooooooooossssshhhhhhh.

 

At the level you and City are at, money is almost no object if the player does the business. Stones and the goalkeeper have both been far better than what they replaced and both fit Guardiola’s style perfectly. If he was just throwing money at it there’d be a string of unsuccessful signings and I can’t think of many.

 

You conveniently reduced the actual cost from an average 50 million to 20 million though. As if Pep is some genius out there finding bargains.

He isn't.

He's paying absolute top dollar, in both fees and wages, to ensure he has the very best available player he can lay his hands on in every position. That's on top of the squad he inherited.

City are funded by an oil rich country. Do you genuinely think United are as rich? We definitely are not, no one is.

 

No, you aren’t, but no matter how rich they are it’s not easy to have all those big names firing. I think it’s quite an impressive list. You may not. I didn’t say £20m was the average.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/pep-guardiola/spielertransfers/trainer/5672/plus/0?station_id=128184

And Mourinho for comparison...

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jose-mourinho/spielertransfers/trainer/781/plus/0?station_id=134947

 

Is that what it's based on? Seriously?

Start at Gundogan and work up, no one beneath him on that list plays, ever.

This also conveniently ignores the squad that each manager inherited, which is a point I've been trying to make.

 

I’m not ignoring it. Just pointing out that the big money buys have been a success which is easier said than done. Bravo and Nolito were poor signings and below that it’s kids and/or squad players at relatively low fees.

He did inherit lots of big players and he’s improved them also. It’s not like Mourinho inherited a pub team.

 

He inherited a team that van Gaal and Moyes had had their dirty hands on and they in turn inherited a squad that Ferguson had extracted the very last legs out of and had been starved of refreshment by the Glazers.

Pep inherited Silva, Kompany, De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho, Sterling etc.etc. and added to it.

As much of a dick Mourinho is, it wasn't the same level playing field.

 

^^^^^^^^

This is where I understand/defend Mourinho's point from the other day.

I'm fully able to look beyond the SKY sports stats for morons rhetoric.

Beyond that I still think he's difficult to defend, I fully admit.

.

 

I see West's point.

I am absolutely not a fan of Pep. But credit where credit is due, the man can get the best out of his players. It's one thing buying and it's another thing getting the best out of the players. This is where Mourinho is currently lacking with us. Granted, City has spent insane amounts which takes away the gloss. Not even Pep could deny he is playing FIFA 18 with the bottomless funds and no accountability. Regardless of what they achieve, it will always come with a catch. Same goes for PSG and other oil laden clubs.

 

This is my thoughts on it too.

Says a lot imo that Guardiola is comfortable enough in the quality of the squad he inherited to focus 90% of his efforts in his second summer on finding full backs, when Mourinho still needed to fix the CB, CM and striker positions. There is a pretty big gap between the squads atm due to the amount of money invested, not just in the last two years but in the last five, and Mourinho isn't a good enough manager to overcome that kind of financial deficit in the league.

Guardiola has spent well, although a lot of that is down to being able to focus his funds on the players he really needs. He's able to spend £50m on his defenders when Mourinho can only spend £30m because he also needed to buy a striker and midfielders who tend to be more expensive. So not unsurprising that his buys have been better than ours. We're in a similar position to Liverpool in the late 2000s - spending the money but unable to catch up at the top as so many positions need fixing.

Still I do agree that Mourinho has underachieved in the league this season. It's frankly unrealistic to expect him to overturn four consecutive seasons of City finishing above us at a time when they are still spending more than us, and it's an achievement to be potentially able to overturn four consecutive seasons of Chelsea finishing above us at a time when they are also spending more than us.

But it's not an achievement to keep drawing games through poor tactics, negative team choices and a failure to prepare. Have to agree with those who think Mourinho has been found out to a degree. He would never previously have allowed the lead to slip to Leicester, or struggled so much against Burnley, Stoke, Liverpool or even City at home. He's always needed more money than his rivals to win league titles in the past, now he hasn't got financial superiority he seems to have no idea how to get the results needed to win.