Mandela - general discussion thread.

Liddle is a funny chap. Former member of the SWP, Millwall supporter and allegedly a Rivals poster(!), and now a trenchant columnist whose idealism has turned into a loathing of the LibLabCon consensus, and the cynical way they have all abandoned the rank and file folk of our country.

He enjoys identifying the Islington set's absurd beliefs, values and hypocrisy.

Mandela's death was a typical example of this. A three hour binge vigil on the BBC while dozens of villages, towns and cities were having the worst tidal surge in 60 years.

Would any other country's national broadcasting channel snub their own people's hardship and , **** it, NEWS in favour of some foreign politician?

Only the BBC who have lost touch with the priorities of the people who fund it and watch it.

Not sure if the grief was genuine or not. Since Diana people have positively enjoyed grieving. It shows you 'care'.
An opportunity for self-promotion, in other words.

 

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Necklace Winnie and Robert Mugabe also in attendance today.

It teks all sorts like.

 

He Finally ...

[video=youtube;AgcTvoWjZJU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU[/video]

of

[video=youtube;HFWKJ2FUiAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFWKJ2FUiAQ[/video]

 

Ding Dong - the terrorist's dead.















We're having a party when Nelson dies.







Nah, surely no one on here would stoop so low as to post gloating celebratory stuff when a politician of world renown snuffs it?

It's beyond the pale........ isn't it?

You would think so, but it seems some people have done that on here earlier this year.

 

In my view, this thread's run its course and is just going to drift into general political comment and argument. There's other boards for that.

I was writing the usual "closed but PM me" but I'll leave it open for now, but remember this board isn't a platform for politics.

 

I post that and then locked it.

Thick pratt.

 

I personally think it's fairly obvious what Agron is up to here.

This thread needs closing IMO.

 

Politics surely not...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...reebie-to-apartheid-south-africa-1674367.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25262482



The mane change debate ...

What would madiba have said ...

 

What about the current England manager and his time in Apartheid era SA?

 

for what it's worth...

Roy H clearly stated (long before Mandela died) that he regretted going there an "inadvertently showing support for an odious regime."

As for Mandela being a terrorist...certain leaders in the USA referred to Martin Luther King as a terrorist for "encouraging terrorism"; the suffragettes were accused of being terrorists; as were many trade unionists in the 1800's and protesters here and throughout the world such as those for a shorter working week; against the poor laws; against slavery; against child labour; against the death penalty; for racial equality; for the right to vote etc. etc.

The US Government justified the Vietnam war by calling the N. Vietnamese terrorists and justified the slaughter of anti war demonstrators at universities on the grounds that they were terrorists. The Chinese Gov called the Tienanmen Square protesters terrorists to justify slaughtering them. The Russian and other Eastern European Governments did the same. The French Government called Greenpeace terrorist when they bombed the Rainbow Warrior ship in the 1980's. The miners and print workers were called terrorists by sections of the Government in the 1980's. The nazi's called the French resistance terrorists.

Terrorism is a word thrown about by rulers who happily abuse people...the saying that "one's mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" is very true.

If Black people in South Africa were treated equally with white people there'd have been no "terrorism". If Mandela and the ANC had done nothing South Africa would never have changed and an evil racist regime would have continued as it had done for decades. He fought for equality and helped to change the history of an entire country and continent. He gave up 27 yrs of his life to his belief in black people being equal to white people in Africa...and when that happened he was instrumental in ensuring that white people were not victimised for the crimes of the previous governments and armed forces.
He could have led a country or even the continent into a civil war ( such as happened in former Yugoslavia or the Congo) but instead chose and argued for reconciliation and peace.
that in my opinion is why he was and is important and why he was the lead item on the news.

Millions of people in this country refused to bank with Barclay's bank because they invested in South Africa during Apartheid. Millions refused to by food from South Africa as part of the boycott. Millions protested in this country against Apartheid. The sporting boycott of South Africa was made a massive issue and eventually imposed after massive protests in this country against a visiting white only South African rugby team.

That is also a big part of why his death was big news here.

to be honest I'd have thought that every right minded person would be vehemently against Apartheid so am surprised at some of your comments about Mandela's death
..."a foreign politician dying at 95 leading the news, he was a terrorist" etc... surely some things are so appalling that they have to be fought against...even violently...
surely violence against Aparthied constituted self defence?

 

Yeah whatever. But the coverage of his death on the BBC was excessive in my and other people's opinion.

He was a figure in world politics but an old retired one. What he achieved was already known and not 'news' as such. As such I expected his passing to be the first item in a slightly extended news at 10 pm (his death was announced at 2150 hrs), not the only item for 3 hrs .

All this on a night when the biggest tidal surge in 60 years threatened the east coast of England and invaded land from Whitby down to Kent.

Not really of interest to newsfolk in London I know, but to those of us near rivers and the coast (who were directly impacted) a serious and dangerous threat to life and property.

 

Yeah whatever????

...and as to why the Thames Barrier having to close (due to the treat of it flooding) is of no interest to me living in London is a bit beyond me.

The tidal threat was massive on the national and local news (at least here in London it was) so I don't really get why you are so aggravated ... (if you think the BBC is **** why not turn to another channel? ) but each to their own I guess

 

Yes...'whatever'.

I'm 'aggravated' because the BBC's coverage of Mandela's death was excessive and ill-judged. At the risk of repeating myself, he was a retired foreign politician in his nineties. Was his death a shock , especially after several near misses in recent years?

I find it strange that a minute's silence was held at games last weekend, and not for Baroness Thatcher.

She had no love of football or its fans, but she was a thrice-elected British Prim Minister. I think the authorities feared some kind of disruption of the 'silence' or 'applause' or whatever, which is a very sad state of affairs for a civilised country of ours. Kow-towing to the mob mentality or the yobs who can't or won't show respect for a deceased British public figure.

With that yardstick how come a foreign politician gets a recognition before games?

How would booing his silence or disrupting his applause by disrespectful chanting have gone down with stadium security and the Premier League?

 

Yeah whatever.

Silly infantile ****...

But the coverage of his death on the BBC was excessive in my and other people's opinion. He was a figure in world politics but an old retired one. What he achieved was already known and not 'news' as such. As such I expected his passing to be the first item in a slightly extended news at 10 pm (his death was announced at 2150 hrs), not the only item for 3 hrs .)

1) Well that's an improvement on your 'old black man' line the other day. 2) Your second, third and fourth lines could easily be applied to Margaret Thatcher. As much as I did not agree one jot with her politics, I expected that as she was a significant world leader, but of course our former PM exactly the same treatment from our media and much more. That's what we got. Indeed her passing was the most reported story in terms of broadcast hours. Don't take my word for it - check with Ofcom, and/or anyone working in the broadcast media or in media related academia.

All this on a night when the biggest tidal surge in 60 years threatened the east coast of England and invaded land from Whitby down to Kent.

Let's get this right shall we? All local BBC and most commercial stations covered it practically around the clock with regional TV providing some coverage. By its very nature local radio coverage is the most effective way of getting out the message. Even Lincs FM covered what was happening in Hull.

Not really of interest to newsfolk in London I know, but to those of us near rivers and the coast (who were directly impacted) a serious and dangerous threat to life and property.[/QUOTE]

Even the new Estuary TV Channel (yes the same one you criticised the other week) covered the floods. Why was this local TV and indeed other community broadcasters set up? Well, because Jeremy Hunt was charged with appeasing those like you who have an anti-BBC agenda; those who have an economic and political imperative to criticise the BBC (The Daily Mail, News Int' and The Telegraph etc), and those who believe the BBC should be scaled down putting local media in the hands of local people i.e. less London centric. That's what Hunt did. He also said that he would slice off some of the licence fee money to set these up and he also did just that. Some of the money went to Estuary TV and it also did a fair albeit limited job that night - alongside all the other LOCAL broadcasters. Finally, I travelled back from Lincolnshire to Hull that evening and it was constantly the story on my car radio.

 

what has any of that got to do with potential flooding that should have led the news?

You sound pissed off cos you think that Thatcher was poorly treated and Mandela was overly respected.

and as for whatever .... what does that even mean? what is the point in discussing something if you are going to respond with "whatever"?

 

Even the new Estuary TV Channel (yes the same one you criticised the other week) covered the floods. Why was this local TV and indeed other community broadcasters set up? Well, because Jeremy Hunt was charged with appeasing those like you who have an anti-BBC agenda; those who have an economic and political imperative to criticise the BBC (The Daily Mail, News Int' and The Telegraph etc), and those who believe the BBC should be scaled down putting local media in the hands of local people i.e. less London centric. That's what Hunt did. He also said that he would slice off some of the licence fee money to set these up and he also did just that. Some of the money went to Estuary TV and it also did a fair albeit limited job that night - alongside all the other LOCAL broadcasters. Finally, I travelled back from Lincolnshire to Hull that evening and it was constantly the story on my car radio.[/QUOTE]


'Silly infantile ****...'

You lost me after the third word I'm afraid.

 

Even the new Estuary TV Channel (yes the same one you criticised the other week) covered the floods. Why was this local TV and indeed other community broadcasters set up? Well, because Jeremy Hunt was charged with appeasing those like you who have an anti-BBC agenda; those who have an economic and political imperative to criticise the BBC (The Daily Mail, News Int' and The Telegraph etc), and those who believe the BBC should be scaled down putting local media in the hands of local people i.e. less London centric. That's what Hunt did. He also said that he would slice off some of the licence fee money to set these up and he also did just that. Some of the money went to Estuary TV and it also did a fair albeit limited job that night - alongside all the other LOCAL broadcasters. Finally, I travelled back from Lincolnshire to Hull that evening and it was constantly the story on my car radio.[/QUOTE]


There you go, corrected for you, now you can read on!

 

'Whatever' is short hand for 'I'm not really interested in what you're saying because I already know it or consider it irrelevant'. In this specific case, giving a resume of Mandela's life.

The major news issue in Britain last Thursday was the weather, in the world it was Mandela's death. I would have expected some sort of balance or co-importance on the BBC 1 News (which also has 24 hrs stations BBC World and BBC News as part of its portfolio of channels for a more global perspective).

The recent helicopter crash in Glasgow was covered extensively for several days on the BBC News recently -perhaps it was a poor news week?

I was highlighting the contrasting and strange ways in which football marked the death of Margaret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela. I don't think football is the place for these 'tributes' but if we must have them (and it seems we must....) then I'm trying to understand the criteria which are applied.