As expected a nonsense response. Elaborate. player vs Players, positional analysis, etc... Just because you're ahead doesn't mean you have a better squad than us. The fact that we vastly underperformed at the beginning of this season and that United have been getting lucky for the past couple of weeks now plays a role. Not to mention compare who you are yet to play and who we are yet to play. Get real and stop deluding yourself. The only areas you're superior this season is GK. And even then De Gea has shown he has a blunder in him.
This should be easy but of course you will be unable to accept. Why are we better? Well besides the obvious. 1. Straight to the point. We are above you in the league. This an impossible point to argue against because the league doesnt lie. 2. Player by player comparisons mean little. Its a team game. We work harder as a team and rely on less individual brilliance. You rely massively on Sanchez 3. You had a slow start. Our start as not only significantly worse but hampered for 4 months with a never ending injury list. After 10 games we had 13 points. 4. Are you really better than a side who has lost just once in 19 games. A run that includes a victory over yourselves. 5. We have been performing poorly. We have still picked up points, scored goals and barely conceded any. Thats us playing badly. You have been playing well (so I am told) so the room for improvement in each side seems to be higher with us. 6. That league table again. 7. I believe we have score more and conceded less. While this doesnt necessarily mean we are better, it sort of helps the argument 8. You, like many base this on our performances. Dont. Results are all that matter. Finally, we have played everyone least once. We have a number of sides that we still need to face. Before you mention March may I direct you to October and November where we also had a tough run and moved from 10th to 3rd in the League. There is not much in it and the season is still young but right now, United are better. We dont even need to play well to show it. Oh and luck plays no part in it. None at all. If you think our run i down to luck..... you need to have a word with yourself.
Its like us claiming that right now we are better than Chelsea and City. Imagine the <laughs> Ive probably caused a future meltdown but facts can often be a harsh mistress. You just have to deal with them.
I'm going to counter some of your points though I feel both Arsenal and Utd have had similar seasons so far, slow starts hampered by huge injury lists and now building some momentum, though I think utd are building momentum through determination with a big dose of luck while Arsenal seem to actually be building some form and playing well. As you've said it's a results game so despite the appearance of the teams at the moment, as it stands utd are mildly closer to the top of the table. 1) yep, can't argue, you're above us in the league. Though it's a two point gap with identical goal difference with utd having more difficult fixtures remaining on paper. But you are currently above us. 2) player by player analysis is a good way to gauge the quality of a squad. It doesn't always translate onto the pitch and it's a team game but individuals make a big difference to a team. Arsenal know this due to players like van persie having almost carried us at times and utd fans know this as it's individual quality that has won them a lot of games in recent times rather than good team play, particularly whilst adapting to a new formation and tactics. Player by player you'd have to say arsenal have more quality in most positions. 3) This point stands for both teams, while utd have had bad injury problems, particularly at the start of the season, Arsenal have had huge injury problems as well this season and at all times had a handful of first team players out, often in the same position. Both teams have had defensive problems that have lost them points due to lots of injuries to defenders at the same time. Arsenal have also had to deal with the champions league at the same time with these injury problems. 4) Arsenal have lost only once at home since the opening day of last season. Both teams can reel off some impressive form stats. Not sure either stat proves one team is better than the other overall though. 5) we have only been playing well since getting more of our first team together over the last month or so, our form has picked up and with the upcoming fixtures we have we can really build some momentum. I don't think you guys playing poorly but managing to scramble enough points is a sign you are better than us. I think it shows you have some very good players who can win a game with individual quality even when your team is playing rap so you'll always be around the top 4 IMO. I don't think it shows you can go beyond that and I don't think it shows your better than us or will have a more successful season. Particularly as now Arsenals squad is littered with world class players who can also change a game with a moment of quality if we are playing poorly. 6) yep we've covered the league table, you are above us by two points. 7) both teams have a goal difference of 19 so I don't see how we could have scored less and conceded more. That's maths just doesn't add up! So in the league our conceded and scored ratio is identical. 8) that was aimed at someone else so I can't answer that with anything! I think last season Arsenal became a better team (squad?) than Utd and currently I think we we still slightly better though I think both teams are very similarly placed. Either team could well end the season with a third placed finish and an FA Cup or scrape through into the top four. I think one teams success will be at the others expense, particularly given the fa cup draw. And finally, of course luck plays a part in any good run in football and it would seem more than a little with utd this season. That doesn't change where you are in the league table but everyone knows thres lots of luck in football...
Im surprised a person has gone out of their way to make a long, dreary post on another teams forum and post inaccurate information. Too lazy to open a league table link and see Arsenal have scored +4 more than United?
Guys, I think you're clutching at straws a little here. I think UiR is a massive twat, but he is right. And you know it isn't fair that I find myself agreeing with a twat like him! All these player v player comparisons and whatnot are subjective and open to interpretation. And with the ''easier'' fixture list we have - what are you basing that on? League position? Because when it's crunch time and teams are fighting for their lives, make no mistake about it, it will not be a stroll in the park. Teams will be fighting tooth and nail to remain in this division and there have been plenty of upsets before. Leicester almost gave us one last week, so I hope that gave the players a taster of the battle that they will have on their hands. At the end of the day, all that matters is points on the board and league position. Currently - as it stands - there can be no arguments. United ARE better than us. Will it end like that? I hope not, but we can only go by what we've got at present and at present, they are a better team than us because they have more points than us.
With respect that's a load of ****. Being two points ahead with equal goal difference, whilst competing in less competitions hardly means they are a better team. It means currently they are doing better than us in the league. So far they've managed to do the equivalent of getting a win when we got a draw. Not sure that's enough of a gap to outright claim they are a better team... Especially when you consider that on paper we have played more difficult fixtures and done it whilst competing in the CL. Two points really isn't anything to shout about, draw a game and Arsenal go ahead. Also the remaining fixtures play a huge part, if come the end of the season utd are ahead of us, or they win a trophy, or both, or whatever, then there is grounds to use that as an indication of them having been better than us this season. But using a two point lead with a third of the season left to play as the sole indication of them being a "better team" than us is hardly conclusive evidence. Whether you like it or not your view that it doesn't matter who is left to play is as subjective as the views on players. I agree towards the end of the season when teams are trying to survive etc that fixtures that would seem easy become much harder but looking at both sets of fixtures you'd have to say Utd have a more difficult end to the season. No-one can argue that as it stands Utd are two points ahead in the league, it's what the league table says! But people are well within there rights to not agree that that's outright proof of Utd being a better team and continue to discuss other opinions and factors. When West Ham sat near the top of the table did you consider them to be a better team than us, Utd, Liverpool and spurs? Despite them doing it before playing lots of there more difficult games? Or did you think they had done really well for the squad they have but expected them to drift away due to not having enough quality throughout the squad? Edit: I've just read this back and it sounds a little combative, so my apologies if it comes across that way, was genuinely just attempting to answer your points lol, I'm such a **** some mornings!
Guys I think the correct term should be United are "better placed at this moment" than Arsenal as that is true as United are 2 points above us. if you compare last season and this season United are doing better than last season and we are doing similar. id at the end of the season we are above United then we have done better than them for 2 seasons running, but they have done better than us for the previous x seasons ! so no one can say who is better as it's subjective - based on points this season so far it's United, based on points gained since last season then it's us.
All that matter is that they are ahead in the league. If we're using the league as a barometer to measure if they're better than us, then the league table does not lie. So you admit - as it stands - they are a better side than us because they are ahead of us in the league due to having more points than us? You're not really disagreeing with me at all here, are you? I never said it was anything to shout about. I said that currently they are a better team than us which has been reflected in their league position. Does it mean it will stay like that forever? No. But at the moment, they are. Again - what does the word 'currently' mean? I don't recall saying it didn't matter who was left to play. I said the league table when it is crunch time isn't always reliable if we're going to use the 'on paper' argument. For example, if West Brom are 11th in the league and they know they will not be relegated, will that really be harder than a QPR or a Sunderland who would be around 16th/17th/18th and are battling it out to stay in this league? I think we both know the answer to that. I don't disagree with you. I don't see the relevance, though. At the time, yes. Because they were getting better results than us. What other way is there to judge a team in the league apart from results? They are the only thing that matter! To be honest, West Ham were only ahead of us when there was like 10/11 games gone. We've played like 24/25 matches which is a far better indicator as that's a huge chunk of the season gone. At the moment I would say Southampton are a better side than us, but I don't think they will finish ahead of us. Only one part of that sentence can be backed up with factual evidence, though. Do you see the difference? I also expected Southampton to falter at this point but they're still going strong. What I personally think doesn't really matter, it's about the reality of the current predicament. There are always surprise packages but what I expect to happen and what actually happens are two different things. Don't worry about it, it's just words on a computer screen at the end of the day. Didn't think you were that aggressive compared to other people I've encountered.
United are currently 2 points above us indeed, but I don't think that makes them 'better' than us, I mean we're also playing in the Champions League, and they're not, which also means we're playing more games......As gooner mentioned, what you can say is that they're currently better placed than us in the league, that's all, and we're still neck in neck with them looking to overtake their place and finish above them again this season as we did last year, so the season isn't still over so it's premature to say they're better than us just because they are 2 points above us when the fight isn't over yet. Now sure if they were miles ahead of us with us having no chance in hell of catching up to them, like the Chelski situation, then they could easily say they are currently better than us, and I doubt much people would complain. And let's be honest folks, back to the Europe issue, if United were in Europe, with all their injuries, players not finding form, they would have had a much tougher time with those extra fixtures of having to travel to Europe, it's much easier when you just have to play 1 game a week for most of the season.
You do realise that is precisely what you tried when you last played us in the FA Cup at Old Trafford??? You let us play...and we beat you 4-0. Nani was doing keepy uppies near the end it was that easy a game. Tbh I dont know which way the result will go but I feel the same as many United fans do about playing yous, just a confidence that whatever you do we'll end up taking control and winning. Psychological thing I dont know. Just heard it's a night game...at Old Trafford...should be buzzing and I'm looking forward to it.
Actually we played you in the cup even after that, and lost 2-0. .....I remember the 4-0 game, we were just utterly ****e that day, and playing a lot of our B-team players, we were just piss poor that day, tactics or no tactics, it wouldn't have mattered. Also you can't really compare United 2008 to United now, your team in 2008 was one of the best ever United sides, I remember watching you guys that season, your attacking play was incredible and had me respecting you lot massively with how you were playing. This United team however, is a shadow of that team, nowhere close to the 2008 team, in terms of pace, creativity, attacking play etc. Manchester United from 2007-2009 were the 2nd best team in Europe, neck in neck with Barca for that mantle, with Barca taking that mantle effectively in 2009 when they literally won everything. It's strange, even though you guys went on to win the league in 2011 and 2013, after the 2009 season when you guys were very strong, your levels just dropped and that's really when the dip began in your club and you started noticing that there were quite a few average players in your side, and a not lot of top quality players being brought in, and eventually that all came to the inevitable crash that was last season when you ended up 7th.
And yes, the game will be an evening kick off game, 7:45, good they didn't make it a 12:45 kick off, :-D. Good for both teams though, as there is a midweek league game for all teams before that, with us both playing on Wednesday, so at least we will be getting those 2 days of extra rest Saturday-Sunday.
How does a game from nearly 7 years ago have any influence on the here and now? Different circumstances, different teams entirely. I guarantee you that your team will not dominate us like that side did. Your current team is not fit enough to lick your 2008 team's boots. It will be a tight affair, in my opinion.
Both teams rested players tbf. Carrick, Nani with Rooney leading the line were our best players. Ronaldo and Tevez iirc were rested that day. I was talking about allowing us to play. This thread has everyone talking about this hoodoo we've had over arsenal for years. The United side has changed massively since then but it seems (even under moyes and more recently) this psychological thing continues regardless of tactics. Even last season at OT we were attacking. As I said I dont know what the result will be, it could go either way. It could be about counter attack as you say, but I honestly believe with it being at OT it will be solely about the midfield battle. Whoever wins that wins the game imo.
The match at the Emirates this season witnessed one of the most fortunate goals you are ever likely to see. Truly we have had wretched luck against United. Not one call has gone our way in recent years and they usually end up taking the lead through exceedingly fortuitous circumstances. Our issues against them stem not from a lack of ability to defend but just a complete inability to score goals against them. If we display all the verve that we showed against Middlesborough and a few other teams this season we will win outright. But either down to the way they set up defensively when they play us, or our complete lack of belief when we play them, we just never seem to have a good attacking game against them. When we do actually turn up and show some attacking flair, we are usually outdone by a gutless cheating ref and a goal which takes about 31 deflections, plus an obligatory Rooney penalty.
[QUOTE="Treble, post: 7627824, member: 1005252"]Both teams rested players tbf. Carrick, Nani with Rooney leading the line were our best players. Ronaldo and Tevez iirc were rested that day. I was talking about allowing us to play. This thread has everyone talking about this hoodoo we've had over arsenal for years. The United side has changed massively since then but it seems (even under moyes and more recently) this psychological thing continues regardless of tactics. Even last season at OT we were attacking. As I said I dont know what the result will be, it could go either way. It could be about counter attack as you say, but I honestly believe with it being at OT it will be solely about the midfield battle. Whoever wins that wins the game imo.[/QUOTE] Was that the game we had the twins playing as wingers
