Match Day Thread Manchester City v Manchester Utd

This ^

The first half under Jose's standard tactics was absolute ****. We could have been 7-0 down with the Young handball, Sterling's hat-trick of missed chances, Gundogan's free header and not a single attempt from United. Pathetic, embarrassing, disgraceful, disappointing, negative, you name it. We were made to look like second rate underdogs - a nightmare to watch.

Second half we had no choice but to abandon Jose's philosophy, take a risk, get men forward - Sanchez and Matic pushed visibly higher and Pogba made forward runs beyond our attackers into the box. Suddenly the possession was more balanced, we had five shots in the opening 26 minutes and scored three goals. It was ****ing glorious! This is what our players are capable of! Yes we are better than City!

Then after the third goal we changed back defensive. Possession swung firmly back to City and we didn't have an attempt on goal for the rest of the game.

Mourinho ruins us, like an anchor around the players' necks. We showed what we can be in the opening of the second half and should be from the first minute to last. Mourinho must go for United to realise that.

 

Spot on

 

Obviously a typo, what I meant to say was 'great hair Paul, good colour - keep up the great play' ............................

 

Looking at stats alone never tells the full story of a match. The saying "could have been/should have" is pointless when it comes to football.. Could have been, but it isn't! If every team scores with every opportunity they get, then most games would end 7-4. As many chances as City had in the first half, for United to score 3 goals away from home and all in one half still takes the cake. I should Southampton

http://www.espn.com/soccer/english-...nited-resorted-to-long-balls-to-beat-man-city - Danilo: Manchester United resorted to long balls to beat Man City. This is exactly my point. This fkin moron still not accepting they lost. I guess he hasn't watched United's first and second goals on replay. The first goal is exactly what I expect of United every game. They call it "self-destruction by City", but come back had nothing to do with City's self-destruction. That is media's attempt to take credit away from United. The comeback was all about United imposing themselves and their true talents which we undoubtedly have in that squad against an opponent that would rather have teams sit back and watch them pass the ball around at will. This is exactly why fans are mostly frustrated with our performances this season. We are far better than the outcomes that we bring home. As I said before in another post, I don't think the victories that we have managed this season against the top 6 sides are by accident - City away, Arsenal home and away, Chelsea at home, Tottenham at home, Liverpool at home. They were all earned by design regardless of what we think of our other shortcomings.

 

If the design relies on De Gea to be our MoM against Arsenal, for Morata's shot to thunder off the underside of the crossbar against Chelsea and Sterling's rubbish finishing as City carved us apart again and again in the first half, then it's not a good design.

It wasn't planned that our five attempts at goal yesterday would come in a 26 minute spell between half time and when we scored the winner - that happened exactly because we ditched the design for a more attacking approach.

There's no reason we couldn't have played the whole game that way, not had to endure that first half and maybe won 4-1, 4-2, for example. Or played that way all season and not still be 13 points behind City now.

Unless his hand is forced, Mourinho will forever hold back our multi million pound attack and make us play as underdogs to the likes of Liverpool and City. I wish he'd go, take his design with him and let us be United.

 

Do you ever watch Jose on the touchline or listen to/read his after match comments?

Most of his time on the line is spent urging the defence and midfield further forward, you see him screaming at players to pass the ball forward all the time.
His after match interviews have more than once contained the phrase "my players played with fear", he has also mentioned a lack of courage in the team more than once. None of this sounds like a manager wanting to hold a team back.

But then, I suppose it's easier for you to read what other people say rather than watching and forming an opinion of your own.

The players are capable of so much more but are holding themselves back, 3 separate players said Jose hardly spoke at half time the only thing he said was "so you are going to be the clowns for the party", that seemed to give them a well needed kick which I hope they remember for a long time.
There is a massive difference between a manager wanting to control a game when the opposition have the ball by limiting what they can do with it and a manager who sets out for his team to never to have possession of the ball in the first place.

 

It is one thing castigating the players for playing with fear or with a lack of courage. But whose fault is that? Let’s face it. If JM did want the ball passed forward as a priority it would have happened. It is simply beyond belief that the players are going against the manager’s wishes. I suspect that he has prioritised not conceding over scoring and when he tells players to play with courage and without fear, the team is still conscious that not conceding is the top priority. And that conflicts with his exhortations about playing with more attacking intent.

On top, the remnants of LVG ‘s legacy regarding possession at all costs are around to haunt the team.

 

Possibly the most relevant part

 

My problem with Mourinho is not so much what has transpired on the field, but rather his man management skills which ultimately impacts performances for better or for worse. Castigating players is damaging. I still feel bitter about Luke Shaw's situation because I believe in his talents and it would be a shame to lose him. But overall, I actually enjoy Mourinho's approach to games. Yes, we need to be more brave when playing tougher oppositions, but I don't buy the whole argument of attacking at all cost. A balanced approach to games and using our strengths should be enough to effectively compete but we need the players to turn up.

As for whether or not Pogba, Sanchez or Lukaku turn up for games, I completely blame the players for that lack of consistency. Pogba, for one, needs to stop being a fk clown and really focus on football above all things. Sanchez is showing signs of settling in and Lukaku should be doing better in my option. If they raise their game on consistent basis, we would not be in this position of playing for second with six games left.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

His talents are useless without the application and mental/physical discipline.

Apart from that, the rest of the post is very good

 

Yeah I've watched and listened to Jose and seen his teams play quite a bit even before he came to United. I haven't noticed him urging or screaming his players forward particularly to be honest. Interesting theory you have that his players set the tactics and their positioning... considered and rejected, sorry... too much evidence against it and of Jose's mentality to the game.

I'll save the many examples but Jose's reputation for defensive/anti-football is undeniably deserved. He's good at it to be fair. Though it has suited other clubs, teams, players much better. It's a good approach for underdogs and less talented teams than a supposedly alpha club like United with some of the best attacking talent in the game. This is the reason his most successful spells have come with Porto, Inter and Chelsea whilst many consider he underachieved at Madrid and United so far. It's why he fell out with Ronaldo, Hazard (when they refused to hold themselves back or sacrifice their talent/attacking instinct for his defensive strategy) and why he will never consistently get the best from attack-minded players like Shaw, Pogba or Martial. The only attacker who will thrive adhering to a Mourinho system is the centre forward as the one player at the pinpoint of the team who doesn't form part of the defensive block in open play.

What I'm saying is, if anyone wants to laud that playstyle then fair enough, but it's difficult to make out he's this attack-minded manager he's clearly not. It's guaranteed that if United and City switched managers two years ago, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and the rest would be part of a scintillating attack tearing up the league now whilst De Bruyne, Sane, Jesus would be struggling for form. The same of Salah, Mane and the Ox. No two ways about it - it's the system making the difference, not the players.

 

Anyone that beats City somehow likes to play long ball football. That's the go to explanation for City players.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Points I learnt from the match:

*The first half was so poor from United as to be a disgrace. The worst 45 minutes in recent times, worse than the Sevilla first half and that one was poor. No heart, no passion, no belief and the team being cut through like butter. Pogba was losing balls in midfield in dangerous areas through his attempts at dribbling

*Truly believed that should the second half had been a repeat of the first half, United would have been completely humiliated with a big defeat. I was wondering how JM could stay on as manager after that. His position would have been untenable with the directors and fans.

* Fortunately United managed to snatch triumph from the jaws of defeat and humiliation. We found that our players were good enough, should they be allowed freedom to attack. We definitely need a system that optimises their talent: Sanchez and Pogba showed that they could link together for the first time.

* JM need to learn the lessons from this match. He needs to listen to fans who say that the football being played is not enjoyable to watch. Of course we win but if I was paying good money then I want to watch exciting football too. We have to stop only playing when we are behind. Simply ridiculous. It shouldn’t be beyond the manager or players to play with passion from the start rather than when we fall behind.

* key point: United is a big club and no manager, player or director is indispensable or irreplaceable. JM if he doesn’t perform should be let go. Without any hesitation. Same with Pogba or Sanchez. If they are not playing well or not giving their all or want to go elsewhere they should be sold. There won’t be a shortage of clubs to buy them. It is also time to buy United type of players. Players who want to play for United and won’t feel crushed by the weight of the shirt.

 

Doesn't sound like Matic thinks Jose is holding players back

“With his personality, Paul needs to be our main player because he plays in that position and he needs to take responsibility,” the Serbian added.

 

He's got a point.

Really though, in order to be able to take that responsibility he probably needs to be picked in that position. Ergo, the focal point of a midfield three with an another three in front.

Which means that Matic and Herrera/McTominay play behind Pogba and the likes of Mata, Martial and Rashford don't get a game as it'll be Sanchez off the left and Lingard off the right.

The two former will probably leave. Sad, but likely. I full expect Mata and Martial to leave in order to accommodate Pogba and Sanchez in their preferred positions.

 

Martial maybe, he is young and ambitious with a fantastic career ahead of him and a lot to give a team. Not so sure about Mata, he is at one of the biggest clubs in the world and is unlikely to be targeted by the likes of Real or Barca. I can see him being happy to be a valuable member of the squad and a real game changer on his day.

 

Well yeah, you'd hope so. It's not so much him wanting to leave, as I've no doubt he'd stay forever given the chance, as him simply being sold.

I think Martial will be pissed off at having been elbowed out by Sanchez. With a lot of justification.

Shame, but you wouldn't blame him for leaving.

 

Nope, I wouldn't blame Martial at all, like I said he has the talent to be right at the top.
I can't see us just selling Mata (or Martial) unless someone else comes in to replace them, with the game today you need a very strong bench to cover the full season.