Macclesfield relegated to non league today

Are you seriously comparing a football club to a library? Behave. Poor people can go to a library and access all manner of useful services, daily papers, internet access, books to read and whatever other community based activities that the library decides to offer. All for free, six days a week. I don't see many footy clubs doing the same thing, do you?

Deep and rich history? OK, fine but I'm not sure how that equates to getting some other ****er to pay your bills like. Also, not everyone gives a **** about football and it's history. And you are so wrong about people's emotional attachments to companies like Sony and Apple. Have you seen the queues that build up overnight when Apple release a new phone. It's like footy fans wanting a cup final ticket. They make a **** load of money out of folk's emotional attachments, more than a football club does.

Why would I give a **** about every club's history mate? Couldn't care less tbh, or what role they played 100 years ago. Seeing as you think this is really important, I'm presuming you sent money to Bury and Macclesfield pay their bills. Or are you expressing the classic socialist positon that expects something to be done as you think it's important but expect someone elses money to pay for it?

 

No, I'm not comparing a football club to a library. I'm comparing it to a theatre or an orchestra or anything that has a long history and that people enjoy. I'm referencing the importance that football in general has to British and World history.

Why would you care about every club's history? Because without historically important clubs such as Queen's Park (who's existence was in jeopardy with the SFA's stance on Hampden), Corinthian-Casuals, or Sheffield FC, there would be no football as we know it.

Also, my stance has nothing to do with socialism at all. I'm avowing conservatism (with a small c). No, I didn't give any money to Bury or Macclesfield, I give my money to the clubs that I have direct link with.

 

Racist!

 

If a professional theatre or orchestra doesn't make enough money to survive, guess what? It goes bust, regardless of it's long history or whether some poeple enjoy it.. Because fundamentally, it's a business. Why should they get a hand out to survive if they don't generate enough money themselves? No different to any other business regardless of the field it's in.

Massive overstatement that mind. Plenty of clubs have gone bust and we still have football. Football hasn't died just because some clubs did and when some more clubs go the wall this current season, football will carry on regardless. Just with a few less clubs. And you don't need to know anything about the history of your club or football in general to want to see the club you support win matches.

If enough people had enough of a link to Bury and Macclesfield to give money to them there wouldn't be a problem as they'd have the money to survive. Obviously not enough people care enough to pay for the product they're offering so they go the wall. Why should they be subsidised by someone else who earns enough money off the product they're offering? After all, you're not prepared to so why should anyone else?

 

Some theatres and orchestras are seen as important cultural resources and are given funding by government agencies or by other bodies. That's the right thing to do in order to ensure that long-standing institutions, whose popularity might ebb and flow but which have particular significance, are retained for future generations.

What's a massive overstatement? That football as we know it wouldn't exist with Queens Park or Sheffield FC? It wouldn't. Those clubs were integral to the development of the game. It would be a massive shame to lose them.

Football will carry on regardless, no matter which clubs go bust, you're right. But the loss of any club leaves a hole in the community of which it is part. I would argue that you do need to know about the history of your club in order to want to see it win matches. Without an understanding of the role it plays in your community, without an understanding of the character of the location in which it is based, and without understanding where the club has stood in terms of achievement over time, its hard to establish emotional links to a club. Without those, the supporter experience is reduced to that of a customer. And we all need to kid ourselves that we're not customers, that our presence does, in fact, matter.

Macclesfield and Bury weren't well run, no. But that doesn't mean that their fans deserve to lose their club. If there was a mechanism in place to prevent clubs folding, such as the league or the FA took control until a suitable buyer could be found, we might not lose clubs. We have a far reaching football pyramid in this country. It would be better if clubs who can no longer afford to compete in the league were kept alive long enough to find their natural place in that pyramid than that they are lost altogether.

 

You're wrong, I don't need to know the history of my club to enjoy watching a match. Same as I don't need to know the history of cinema to enjoy a film or the history of art to appreciate a painting. My emotional links to Sunderland have nowt to do with Sunderland's history, it's to do with my personal history and remembering my Grandad who used to take me. Don't need owt else for my emotional link tbh, that's more than enough. According to your position it seems like I need to know the history of football clubs I have no link to at all before I can fully enjoy a win for Sunderland which I think is completely ridiculous.

I agree it's hard lines for the fans if a club goes bust but tough ****. If a business is badly run and skints itself over-reaching it deserves to go under. It certainly doesn't deserve hand outs to keep them going. Basically I see your argument as this. You think it's important that football club's should be financially protected because of some sort of cultural and historical importance but expect someone else to implement it and pay for it. My attitude is if a club can't afford to function it doesn't deserve to exist and it certainly doesn't deserve to get a hand out to keep it going.

 

I haven't said that you need to know the history of clubs to enjoy a win for Sunderland. I've said that there are clubs that are historically significant and that they should be protected like any other historically significant heritage asset. There's nothing ridiculous about that.

Your example of your personal history with the club is another good reason for making sure that clubs aren't lost. Successive generations of fans have fallen in love with the club, which is what I mean about their importance to the local community.

No matter which way you want to look at it, football clubs are not like normal businesses and there are millions of people across the globe who don't treat them as such.

 

I disagree about football clubs having to be protected because of some sort of historical and cultural relevance. I mean, how are Queens Park relevant to me today? They aren't. No matter which way you look at it football clubs are normal businesses. I know that's true because just like any other business if they are badly run and run out of cash, they go bust. No preferential treatment, which is exactly how it should be in a capatilist society. You either pay the bills or disappear, same as any other business in the entertainment industry.

 

Whether you realise it or not Queens Park, and clubs like them, are relevant to us all today. They helped to shape the game of football as we know it. That's exactly the same as teenagers today saying "how is World War 2 relevant to me?" - because it shaped the world that we live in.

Of course football clubs aren't like other businesses. No one goes around wearing replica Morrison's tops. Fans of Boots the Chemist and Superdrug don't meet up in car parks to fight each other. No one spends their Saturday afternoons in Gregg's cheering everytime a steak bake is sold.

If you can't the see the cultural or historical significance of football clubs, that's fine. Plenty of people do.

 

They can't really do that, **** piss take owners will become even ****ing worse if they did. Plus ours would probably end up being here even longer than however long he will be

 

Depends how you do it. You'd need to let the owner who had created the financial mess take the consequences, without the club itself being wound up.

 

Queens Park have zero relevance to me today and comparing a footy club to World War 2 is ****ing ridiculous. Millions of events went to shape the world I live in, not just the ones you deem important. How about the sell off of the Federal Reserve into private hands? How about the CIA conducting coups all through South America? How about the UK conducting a coup in Iran in 1953? How about the development of corporate capatilism and the growth of central banks? How about governments not being in control of their own currency? Personally I think all of these events are significantly more important and relevant than any footy club but I don't expect every other ****er to think the same. Mainly because I'm not that arrogant to believe just because I deem something important every one else should.

You're still wrong. Football clubs are like other businesses. I know this as a business needs to make a profit to survive and when they dn't, they cease to trade. Like Macclesfield, a failed business. This is capatilism at work. Simple ****ing as. I would like to oint out I think having to use voilence to prove they are culturally and historically significant is ****ing stupid imo, same as fighting some other blokes because they support a different team is ****ing stupid imo.

 

I agree with you, fighting other people over a football club is ridiculous. But I'm not condoning violence, I'm using it as one (of many) example of the way people view football clubs and the significance they have in their lives. Much more significance than most other businesses.

You're right, lots of events went into shaping the modern world. And lots of money goes into preserving the significant locations, buildings, objects, organisations that are associated with those events. That's the right thing to do. Its important that we conserve our heritage. Many people, such as the Spanish organisation FASFE that I mentioned, view football clubs as part of our heritage. Therefore, there is an argument that they should be conserved.

 

And people queue all night to get the latest iphone as they believe it to have major significance in their lives, much more than any football club could provide. And it does to them, but no-one else has to think that. It's a choice that's been made, nowt more or less. Same as a footy fan. It's important to you, no-one else gives a ****. As an example, a lot of my mates don't give a flying **** about football and if every club ceased trading, they wouldn't bat an eyelid.

I agree football is a part of a collective heritage but that doesn't mean that individual clubs deserve some type of protectionism imo. They are a business competing in the entertainment industry and have a lot more competition today than they did as little as 20 years ago, never mind 50. And in a crowded market those who have a product they can't sell or are run badly go by the wayside. Simple as.

We have museums dedicated to football to keep it's heritage in the public arena. And it's more important to me to see those types of places funded to keep the heritage of football in the public consciousness rather than a badly run club in an area of the country that is saturated with clubs. You can't preserve everything from the past and that includes football clubs.

 

I couldn't care less about the English National Ballet, for example. If it didn't exist, it wouldn't affect me. Ballet, like football, is just a form of entertainment. But the English National Ballet receives funding and grants. I think that's important as it keeps it running for those people who do see it as important.

People see their football clubs as important, for a variety of reasons. They are businesses working in the entertainment industry but, whether you consider them to be or not, they are seen as being different from other businesses (e.g. .https://www.libdems.org.uk/f29_reclaiming_the_people_s_game). A mechanism to prevent them being completely lost due to the actions of irresponsible owners does little harm to anyone and, arguably, does a lot of good for the people who see them as important.

 

Macclesfield Town have been expelled from the National League 13 days after being wound up by the High Court.

The National League's board has passed a resolution to expel the Silkmen with effect from October 12th.