Loyalty

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WWOCB

WWOCB

Active Member
May 3, 2011
1,701
2
38
In the past few days, I've come across a number of things which have really made me question where loyalty in football is, and more specifically, whether its quite simply lacking from Charlton Athletic nowadays.

John Sullivan

Fair enough, he's a decent keeper, I'll admit that much, but personally I was annoyed to see him join us because he's coming from Millwall. I know this happens all the time and its nothing new, but it annoys me how so many people seem to prefer him to our home grown, Charlton-boy Rob Elliot...

Rob Elliott

As I have just mentioned, I've seen and heard many fans state how they'd rather see Sullivan (who at the time was a loanee from our fierce local rivals) wear the number 1 shirt rather than a goalkeeper who gives his all for the cause, loves this club, came through our academy and once upon a time used to sit in the covered end watching Charlton as a boy. With rumours of teams like Southampton being interested in signing him, I've read many fans opinions (mainly on CharltonLife etc) stating how we should ship him off if we get a 6 figure sum for him (which would mean anything more than £100,000, 10 times less than the annual cost of our academy which funded his progress).

Jose Semedo

With rumours all over the place that Semedo is off to Palace on a free, it makes me question just how much loyalty is needed for a player to kiss the badge after every game, clap the fans when they sing his name, claim that they would sign a contract with us for life if given the chance and even shed tears when being sent off and when scoring their first ever goal at home.

Surely it can't just be me feeling this way?
 
nope I agree with you WWOCB it's a slap in the face having to sign Millwall or Palace rejects, we haven't fared too well with signings from Palace in recent years either.

i'd much prefer to see Elliott in goal than Sullivan though I do welcome the competition.

and you can add Darren Ambrose to the list, did his best to impersonate a professional footballer while with us, joins Palace on a free and keeps them up single handed.
 
Cheers Martinho!

I agree about the competition being good, it will really push Robbo to perform at his best through fear of losing his place, but if Sullivan can't get games he will end up stropping and disrupting the chemistry in the dressing room. It was similar with Darren Randolph (as much as I liked him), he was getting frustrated with a lack of first team opportunities and ended up leaving the club, seemingly without looking back. Luckily for Sullivan, Elliott is fairly injury prone meaning he will get more games than he was at Millwall even if he is second choice.

Good point about Ambrose, I was gutted when he started banging goals in for them. Similarly Paddy McCarthy seems to have been doing well there since leaving us, although apparently his form has dropped this season. We seem to always get the arse-end of any deal with Palace as well, Mark Hudson anyone? Danny Butterfield anyone? Two of the most shocking players to have pulled on the shirt in recent years in my opinion.
 
As much as we would want to believe otherwise, the only loyal people in football are us fans, we buy the tickets, food, programs, shirts, jackpot tickets, CAFC player, Valley Gold memebership and much more. Why do we do it? because we are LOYAL to our club and want to show our LOYALTY...!!!!! We can question our sanity for doing it but not our Loyalty...!!!

I for one have learned to expect players to think with their pockets and not their hearts and now expect nothing more from our "employees"....

I want nothing more from the players in our team to show me they are trying hard for us...I accept they may not be the best players but as long as they do their best for the time they are with us I will accept that even if we lose (hopefully trying their best and with dignity) I will support my Charlton whatever division they are in and whoever plays for and manages them.

I don't feel any different towards good players who have left to better themselves or thier families or even not so good players who have been moved on for whetever reason....I wish them all good luck and then get behind the new lads and things move on again.

Here#s looking forward to the new season, I am bored with my dull Saturdays already...!
 
Brilliant post Midlands - wouldn't change a word of it.

Players are employees of companies. I am an employee of my employer.

I'll be eternally grateful to my employer for giving me a chance to prove what I could do when I was thrown on the scrapheap at 50. In return, I've worked my 'nads off for the past eight years producing some of the best work of my life. This April, despite the quality of the work I've produced for them, I was very lucky indeed to keep my job.

The debt of gratitude is paid off. If somebody made me a decent offer tomorrow, I'd be off without a backward glance.

Football can be a very lucrative career, but it's a short one and with one bad tackle it could be a very short one indeed.

Footballers may inhabit a different planet from most of us, but they've still got wives, partners and families that need to be looked after not only while they're playing, but in the very long time in the future when they're not.

There have been references in the past week to our brilliant win at Wembley in what most commentators rank as the greatest playoff final of them all. Reflect on what has happened to our hat-trick hero of that wonderful day and I can assure you that the question of loyalty to a club will slip quietly but firmly into the background.

I understand and sympathise with your point of view, WeWant but for me the thought of one of the finest players I've ever seen at Charlton selling his memorabilia just to make ends meet pretty much kills the argument stone dead.
 
A very good counter-argument Tewks, but it only really works for the example of Semedo, and even then there is counter arguments. Palace are a club who for the past 2 seasons have avoided relegation to League One, have poor support, a shoddy ground and no history. In my opinion him joining Palace would not be a step up. I will admit that yes, this is my opinion, as I do not have a crystal ball and cannot see into the future, but weighing up the choice of the aforementioned club with us (who still have great support, a Premier league ground and financial security, not to mention our history), the idea of moving to Selhurst for the sake of his family and his career would seem like a mistake. Yes, they are in a league higher than us, but we have ambitions and expectations of returning to the Championship (if not the Premier League in a few years). If he wants to make the right choice for his family, then the only real choice would be to stay with a team who value him (meaning he will not run the risk of being released next season etc causing money problems) and continue to get games, whilst absorbing the praises of the fans who adore him.

The reference to Clive Mendonca is indeed a sad one, but I feel he would have ended up the same way regardless of who he played for, with rumours of drinking-troubles coupled with his early retirement.

Perhaps I am naive, but to me loyalty and rivalry are two of the most important factors in football, and for me they're miles above success in the pecking order.
 
perhaps Super Clive could do some scouting for us, he'd have the eye for a goalscorer and would never have let us sign our recent collection of striking misfits
 
Yes, you're right about the move to Palace, which I don't think is going to happen for a moment. Surely, in any walk of life, if an offer's made, everything has got to be right about it - personally, I've never moved job simply for money - if you're offered more money to go to a club that's going nowhere fast, what's the point?

The point you make about Sullivan and Elliott is a valid one but has one flaw. Robbie Elliott is Charlton through and through, but we are a selling club and will always be a selling club. The Academy has produced a lot of players that were Charlton through and through and would have given anything to play for the club, but were discarded before they had a chance. At least he's achieved his ambition.

I'd rather see him play than Sullivan, of course I would, but I don't really recognise specific rivalries - as far as I'm concerned, the next team we play is our biggest rival, the most important one to beat, which is probably why I didn't even blink when we signed Harry Cripps, Eamonn Dunphy, Phil Walker, Terry Brisley, traditionally from 'the enemy' - the moment they put the red shirt on, I was behind them.

I guess I'm pretty much in a minority here, but it enables me to see what a player is really made of and what he can contribute to CAFC, rather than have my vision clouded and my opinion skewed from the start by him coming from a 'rival' club.
 
Call me cynical if you will, but I’m afraid loyalty in football went out the window when Mr Bosman made himself a household name…!!

Ultimately Semedo has to put bread on the table for his family, so if Palarse are willing to pay the right money then why wouldn’t he end up there if that’s what he wants…

In his defence, assuming there’s any truth to the whole Palarse move (can’t see it myself, this smacks of agents using scare tactics in an attempt to force the hand of our board to get him signed up sharpish before he signs for the enemy)… Football is a lucrative yet very short career and one that can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye. Many players each and every year drop out of the game through injury, some at a relatively young age and some before they’ve had the opportunity to fulfil their full potential. As our very own Richard Rufus, Andy Hunt, Martin Pringle, Clive Mendonca and more than likely Kelly Youga will testify.

Rightly or wrongly a hell of a lot of modern day players fail to make provisions for their careers once their time in football is finished. Due to this many players are basically looking to amass as much money during their careers as they can in order to secure their uncertain futures once the time comes to hang their boots up for the last time.

I admire Semedo for what have been in the main bloodied performances in the red of our great club. However, I don’t buy into all the ‘I really, really, really love Charlton Athletic sooooooooooo much’ rubbish he’s been spouting.

Yes he said it, but did he say it cos he meant it or did he say it because he knew the Charlton faithful would lap it up, and in doing so would assist him in ramping up the pressure on the powers that be in the hope they’ll offer him a nice shiny new lucrative contract… I hope I’m wrong, but with the way modern day football is I strongly suspect it’s the latter… After all, there’s been no declaration of his undying love for the club prior to his contract running out… Funny that…!!

Just saying it as I see it lads…
 
I would like to throw a side thought into this. I agree that loyalty is sparse in football now, has been for a long time now, but with more and more clubs with less and less money, administrations etc etc, is it time that players begin to try and embrace loyalty a little more. A player like semedo has a chance to build a long term career, why can't we start to look towards long contracts again, I'm talking 5 or 6 years. Players can try and settle into a surrounding for the long haul, get a home, get stability, raise you're family and avoid the risky business of bosman, you only have to look at Michael Stewart, who moved for good money to turkey, but lost out on 6 months pay as he never got paid by the club. Maybe it's time the clubs try and make long term statements, sell long term ambition with contracted years, be 'the project'. January transfers don't win titles very often, so swapping up the team constantly doesn't settle well, managers always complain about getting players to gel. Have a big core of long term players and actually coach them! They know their place, the manager does and the fans do, simple.
 
Its down to the new owners and Powell to give semedo a far better contract to keep him at the club. If not his free to go. I hate the idea of him going to palarse or scumwall. So hopefully the board get there fingers out and give him a better deal. As for Sullivan I was impressed with him on loan last season and out of him and Elliot. I say sulivan should be number 1.
 
Loyalty in football is a bit like breakfast in bed, surprising and wonderful when it happens but ultimately, extremely rare and certainly not the norm. There is very little a club can do when a player can move for free and they believe that they should be playing at a ‘higher level’. Bosman, sycophantic agents, obscene salaries and the sort of head-turning that would make Linda Blair envious have a great deal to answer for.

I’m not going to cover old ground, some excellent and thoughtful contributions have already been offered on this posting. I would just say that in the case of Semedo and Rob Elliot we are basing our arguments of rumour, hyperbole and hearsay. I am guilty of indulging summer football gossip myself but I guess we just have to wait and see. I want a competitive and hard-working promotion chasing Charlton next season. If that doesn’t sit right with any player, they can go but I, and the rest of us here, will remain loyal to the club that we love.
 
I'm all for the romance of having youngsters in the team, but only if they are good enough. It doesn't matter where Sullivan was signed from, it's not as if he is the product of their youth system and a fanatical 'Wall supporter. He has an opportunity to further his career by joining a bigger club at the time, which ultimately didn't turn out to be what he would have wanted, but that in turn has become out gain.

I love Robbie and think some of the saves he made towards the end of the season were nothing short of fantastic. However there does seem to be a complacency with him- his neglect to address his weight is a cause for concern IMO. His flapping on crosses doesn't seem to have ever been addressed and he is beaten by long range shots far too often. Having a goalkeeper like Sullivan next to him can only be a good thing for himself and the club- hopefully it will spur him on the improve the parts of his game which aren't up to scratch... likewise with Sullivan. Neither are the finished article.
 
Don't think it matters one iota who a player supports
... Not a valid argument at all

Look at Fowler and McManaman - both supported Everton

I couldn't care less who someone has grown up supporting as long as they do the business on the pitch for my club
 
I couldn't care less who someone has grown up supporting as long as they do the business on the pitch for my club.
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Couldn't agree more Dick.

I know I'm in the minority here, but having seen them both i genuinely believe that Elliot is a better goalkeeper than Sullivan...
 
Exactly

The last time we had 2 decent keepers we mucked Randolph about with his contract

... so avoid doing that and the club can benefit massively from having two decent keepers
 
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