Far from it, he gets no praise whatsoever. Then you have Henderson who doesn't do the basics as well but looks busy and everyone has all the time in the world for him. I like both players but I just do t understand the praise for one and hostility towards the other myself.
The difference is Henderson works his socks off for the club and Allen just wonders around making pretty standard passes, which to be honest any footballer in the league should be able to make as part of their basic skill set. Allen has very little passion, that's certainly pretty clear. Henderson oozes it. That's my opinion, and I respect yours if it's the opposite
The impact that Henderson and Gerrard have are a lot more visible than someone like Allen. Gerrard will provide a couple of great set pieces, Hendersons energy abd bite are a lot more easier to spot. Off the ball, Allen is very good - always looking for space, keeping the ball etc etc. His contribution is less visible but still very good. Not saying Allen is a world beater and we definitely need an upgrade, but I find it very unfair that one player can play sh*t for 90 mins but deliver a couple of set pieces and all is well, whereas another player can have a decent 60/70 mins but will only be remembered for that miss (which was shocking btw).
Allen presses very well which requires work rate and he is always the first lad there to receive a pass when someone is under pressure, this is to do with positional awareness and that's why he isn't sprinting around as fast as he can all game. As I said above I like both players and think hendo is progressing really well but the stick allen gets is bordering on out of order!!
Why though? We paid twenty million pounds for someone who currently is below Henderson in the team. Allen does the basics well, anyone can see that, has he got any assists for us and if he has I would love to too see the goal he produced. This season I've seen Henderson play in four different position and play brilliant, his assist for Suarez against Fulham was fantastic, if Gerrard done that it would be highlighted everywhere. I've never seen Joseph 'the playmaker' Allen do anything like that, no reverse balls, nothing to make me go wow. He isn't a CM as he doesn't have the work rate, he isn't a CAM as he doesn't create enough and he isn't a CDM as he isn't intelligent enough to defence, he's just a liability.
But this is the thing, Allen was playing great when he first came but he has barely played due to injury for months and months. Yeah he was pretty **** a few games before it was decided he would have his op but so was everyone else to be quite honest. It was getting Sturridge and coutinho that changed our fortunes in the new year. He will start to get games for us now he is injury free so I hope people get behind him rather than moan and groan cos that sort of atmosphere affects everyone else.
Countinho, Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson are playing better than him, he needs to play well to get into that midfield and against Everton he done himself no favours.
Not so sure they are to be honest, hendo and coutinho are having good seasons granted. Hendo needed games to prove he is of use to us - Allen should get the same treatment IMO. All we've been moaning about all season is how we are overrun in midfield every game so I'm not sure how you can justify keeping it all the same in that case? Surely Allen could give us something in that respect in games of a bit less calibre and weaker midfields?
See that's interesting. I thought Lucas had a decent game yesterday, read the game well and made some vital challenges and covered a lot of space when needed.
I think Mighty has already mentioned this but you only have to look at pretty much every game this season and we struggle to control games for large periods (there are some exceptions). Against the decent teams, we are completely overrun. I criticise Gerrard and Lucas often but I myself have to remember that Gerrard is not a deep lying playmaker - he is not in the same class as Alonso/Pirlo in that role. HE needs to be much more advanced. And Lucas is not a natural DM - he was a box to box/ AM back in Brazil.
True but when he was at Gremio (sp?) he was very young, I think as he's matured this position has become his natural role. Many players start off in different positions but mature into what they become. RVP is a good example, he started out as a winger and matured into a CF. Lucas wouldn't have played half as many games if he stayed as an CM/CAM (not for us anyway).
Look, I'm not going to defend Allen as if he's some misunderstood genius but quite frankly none of our midfielders (not including Coutinho although he was average yesterday) are at the level we need them to be at to seriously challenge for Honours. Singling out a guy that hasn't actually played much this season and our midfield has still had the strength of jelly confuses me. But apparently everyone else is allowed an excuse, playing out of position, it's the system etc etc (all excuses that were not accepted when BR used them to defend Allen last year by the way). All of our midfielders have clear weaknesses. Gerrard can't help his main one: age, Henderson has composure issues at times, Lucas has lost a tiny second of anticipation which means he's picking up too many cards and giving away too many free kicks. Moses hasn't shown me abything. And yes, Allen doesn't do anything special. At worst our midfield looks a bunch or 'ok' players. but I do love this continued love child thing pointed at Allen though. Seeing as there is only one undropable midfielder on our team no matter how poorly he plays. It's obvious we need two high quality midfielders to replace two we have. Any of our existing midfielders could be the third and we'd get away with it but 3 of them all in one team? The holes are obvious be it 3 or 4 at the back. Put another way, neither Allen or Henderson are Gerrard or Alonso's natural successors, and Gerrard isn't THE Gerrard anymore and IMO no system will get that level back. So we need to buy two but who can we realistically get that would be good enough that we as fans would not question Gerrard being dropped. That's not be blaming Gerrard, I just assume we could probably get midfielders that we wouldnt criticise them replacing Henderson, Allen or Lucas.
Well put Frank - this is basically what I was trying to get at. None of our midfield have been great (having said that we are 2nd in the table after 12 games lets not forget) so why keep banging on about Allen who has played about 2 hours for us this season? The love child thing bothers me too - everyone was saying how quickly hendo would be dropped by BR when Allen is fit no matter how he performs and that simply didn't happen so where is BR credit aswell?
Indeed Mighty, I'm not trashing our midfield totally, they are good enough to beat most of the bottom half teams and on a good day compete with the top 6. But if we can we should always look to improve. Sentiment shouldn't be used as a shield for any player. I keep hearing Hendo is getting there. Well he better hurry up and get there to stay in a team wanting to at least stay at number 2 in the league. Allen needs to show why BR had faith in him or despite money spent he can go. Lucas needs to get back that little bit he's dropped or we need to look at an alternative option to him if not totally replacing him. And I point to the Chavs in how they (with loads of money tbf) didn't let sentiment get in the way with trying to get Lampards replacements/alternatives while he's still there and dropping him when it's felt warranted. It just feels to me like BR is treading water until Gerrard retires before implementing the midfield he actually wants. Again, I'm not slagging Gerrard or any of our midfield. I'll support and put up with their limitations until we can improve on them but I want to see Rodgers actively looking NOW for his best 3 for the next decade, not looking for crutches. Either Gerrard or any of our existing midfielders are good enough to be one of those 3 or they're not. Of course I might be seeing it wrong.
Overall, our midfield is pretty ****. It can't dominate a game anymore and needs Suarez and Coutinho to drop deep to create anything. That said, I don't understand all the Lucas criticism because, for me, he's playing well. I loved playing in midfield and it's the position I enjoy watching most during games; movement and positioning. Lucas may not be as quick as he was prior to his injuries, but he's doing very well breaking up attacks. Against Everton, he broke up several attacks. He needs to cut the lazy challenges when he realises he's too late to stop it but tries anyway with a leg out, but he's intercepting alot, keeping possession and generally trying to pass it forwards. I'm happy with Lucas and he's fine for top 4 challenging but would welcome competition in the DM role for him to push him on or be succeeded by. Since day one I've been against Allen and have still to be convinced of what he brings to the team. People herald (or at least, used to) him for: His passing which is often negative or sidewards and lacks incision when it does go forward. His positioning which doesn't make him available for a pass out of trouble, but in fact, for the second pass in the triangle - he always has the opposition player between our player with the ball and himself. Seriously, watch him. It's often another defender or Lucas who gets the first pass out of a dangerous position, which then goes to Allen who shuffles it further away. His pressing is usually good but not too great when the rest of the team doesn't do it meaning huge holes appear. That's Br's problem though, not Joe's. He rarely shoots, when he does he's bad at it. He hasn't got a good range of passing, can't take set pieces, isn't a physical player, can't beat a man...what does he do? He's a ****ter version of Carrick and that takes some doing! Henderson can pass with incision as shown by his assist the other week but needs to keep working on it. He always presses up the pitch and his positioning is adequate but improving as he gets more game time in the centre of the pitch. Above all, he will, just like Kuyt, always keep running and chasing until the last whistle. Liverpool fans always appreciate a worker. Gerrard cannot play in the centre of midfield. I'm almost convinced of that. No one questions his ability or passing, but as a midfielder he has to plug gaps, run from box to box, cover runners and press. He needs to be in the number 10 role out the way with players behind him, or shoved wide right where Johnson can do the leg work and tracking and he can drift about with his brilliant passing. If that means Coutinho shifts out left, so be it. He can influence a game from anywhere. I don't think BR has the balls to either drop or move Gerrard. I would have one or two of Henderson, Lucas and Gerrard in a midfield after January, but I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that trio together can keep us in the top 4. One or two of those three with another quality midfielder, but not all three. Too many weaknesses against the big teams.
I think we have a good set of decent midfield players. But they dont all compliment and balance each other as a midfield well enough. I think the main isue is that Gerrard and Lucas dont match as a pairing.
Only reason I've pointed out Allen is the fact that he's been injured and out of form, first time he's fit, he's automatically selected. I know that's Rodgers fault, but it seems he will constantly selected regardless now, and I really struggle to see what he does. Lucas-Gerrard Moses-Coutinho-Henderson Should of been played against Everton.
