Losing my Religion?

[Left on the Shelf]

Apologies for the long post. It's a heart-felt 'thought dump'!

I have supported Spurs for coming up to 60 years. It was a family tradition. First visit to WHL in ’67 and was a season ticket holder through the 80’s and early 90’s. Work and life has taken me away from London and ultimately the UK, but I’ve always retained the connection. Still get downcast and/or euphoric in (roughly) equal measure, but always Spurs have been ‘my club’.

But strangely, despite the relative positivity around at the moment, for probably the first time in my life, I have started to question what my allegiance actually amounts to these days.

The family connection has long since abated, the players and managers that I grew up with have died or moved on and even our home has changed (for the better in many ways I do admit).

For me, players represent the ethos of the club on the pitch, or they did. Over the decades, we have naturally moved from a team that was predominantly born within a few miles of WHL, with a few interlopers from the Home Counties and wider UK, to a side that last weekend started with one English player (Spence) and a Welshman (Johnson). I respect anyone who puts on the shirt, but how can they ever truly be expected to respect those traditions, particularly in a win at any cost era? And should they have to anyway? (Rhetorical question...of course not!)

I have no connection with the owners and was never a particular fan of Daniel Levy, but I always thought that they were at least Spurs fans at heart, trying to do their best for the club, even if I didn’t agree with their methodology.

But something hit home when I saw and listened to the smarmy new Non-exec Chairman, Charrington the other day. With the alleged pot of gold in additional funding, he may well bring new success to the club, but at what cost? Talk is of a sell-out to Qatar or an odd business Consortium. That just smacks of the City and Newcastle blood money model. Not something that I could live with to be honest.

Being as superficial as the next man or woman, a few victories with some good attacking football and I will probably just banish these thoughts for another while, but for now I am having my doubts, that I am losing my Religion and my relationship with the club has changed permanently. Maybe I should just follow the club for the quality of the football alone and feck the history? We’ll see.

COYS!!

 

[Alfie Conn]

Welcome to the premier league era of football , I have felt the same about the club for a long time ,the poch era gave me hope , a group of players some from the youth set up others brought for not a huge amount but they went toe to toe with the sky four Tottenham is the only team I support but if we end up a play thing of an oil rich state my passion will dwindle

 

[Spurf]

It's a dilemma this is why I wish for the transfer window to close. Its the business side of the game but fans have bought into it. I also get sucked in against my better judgement.
The local player thing is a bit of a myth because we always had Scots or Irish or Welsh players. Now they are from all over the world. That's a good thing, I think football has done more to suppress racism and xenophobia than the politicians have but it doesn't help the local club feeling. Money at the current levels now is a huge factor.
I think the Americans will change football in their image and that will be the end for me.

 

[Spurf]

Whatever you think of Levy he was a safe pair of hands. Now we don't know how we stand.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

I think the Americans will change football in their image and that will be the end for me.

The next WC being a case in point. This promises to an abomination - a politically driven land-grab, worse than Hitler hosting the '36 Olympics.

 

[Spurf]

The next WC being a case in point. This promises to an abomination - a politically driven land-grab, worse than Hitler hosting the '36 Olympics.

THE Americans are not far off owning 14 PL clubs and that will give them control

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Whatever you think of Levy he was a safe pair of hands. Now we don't know how we stand.

Wherever we go next, that process was put in process by ENIC, Lewis and Levy. That pair can claim to be fans, but don't, not for one second, forget that the purchase of the club was first, last and from the off, a business venture.

It's highly likely that Daniel's removal is every bit as much about enriching the Lewis family as the initial purchase, the Stratford debacle, building the stadium, the NFL link up, Beyoncé, the Super League fiasco...I could go on.

COYS Daniel had become as much a millstone around ENIC's property development necks as he had become to THFC's footballing prospects. It's hard to bring in investors, sponsors, purchasers and be seen as a competent development partner when there is uproar in the stadium and the club has increasingly become a joke and is losing relevance in sporting terms.

We can all forget about this being about sporting success alone...but what Daniel seemed to find impossible to grasp, is that the further growth of what the club's already become IS BASED UPON IT BEING VIEWED AS A BIG, SUCCESSFUL FOOTBALL CLUB.

Under Mr Micawber's stewardship, we had become increasingly irrelevant - Stadium FC, Beyoncé United, NFL Hotspur...

...whatever lies ahead...good, bad or indifferent, it's in the owners' best interests that the club is successful on the pitch. If that's not the case, there's a problem - as a fan, as an investor, as a sponsor, as an owner...

 

[Spurf]

Wherever we go next, that process was put in process by ENIC, Lewis and Levy. That pair can claim to be fans, but don't, not for one second, forget that the purchase of the club was first, last and from the off, a business venture.

It's highly likely that Daniel's removal is every bit as much about enriching the Lewis family as the initial purchase, the Stratford debacle, building the stadium, the NFL link up, Beyoncé, the Super League fiasco...I could go on.

COYS Daniel had become as much a millstone around ENIC's property development necks as he had become to THFC's footballing prospects. It's hard to bring in investors, sponsors, purchasers and be seen as a competent development partner when there is uproar in the stadium and the club has increasingly become a joke and is losing relevance in sporting terms.

We can all forget about this being about sporting success alone...but what Daniel seemed to find it impossible to grasp, is that the further growth of what the club's already become IS BASED UPON IT BEING VIEWED AS A BIG, SUCCESSFUL FOOTBALL CLUB.

Under Mr Micawber's stewardship, we had become increasingly irrelevant - Stadium FC, Beyoncé United, NFL Hotspur...

...whatever lies ahead...good, bad or indifferent, it's in the owners' best interests that the club is successful on the pitch. If that's not the case, there's a problem - as a fan, as an investor, as a sponsor, as an owner...

It doesn't take 25 years to sort that out but the Lewis children may be the different agenda. We will have to wait and see.

Meantime I will just watch football.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Apologies for the long post. It's a heart-felt 'thought dump'!

I have supported Spurs for coming up to 60 years. It was a family tradition. First visit to WHL in ’67 and was a season ticket holder through the 80’s and early 90’s. Work and life has taken me away from London and ultimately the UK, but I’ve always retained the connection. Still get downcast and/or euphoric in (roughly) equal measure, but always Spurs have been ‘my club’.

But strangely, despite the relative positivity around at the moment, for probably the first time in my life, I have started to question what my allegiance actually amounts to these days.

The family connection has long since abated, the players and managers that I grew up with have died or moved on and even our home has changed (for the better in many ways I do admit).

For me, players represent the ethos of the club on the pitch, or they did. Over the decades, we have naturally moved from a team that was predominantly born within a few miles of WHL, with a few interlopers from the Home Counties and wider UK, to a side that last weekend started with one English player (Spence) and a Welshman (Johnson). I respect anyone who puts on the shirt, but how can they ever truly be expected to respect those traditions, particularly in a win at any cost era? And should they have to anyway? (Rhetorical question...of course not!)

I have no connection with the owners and was never a particular fan of Daniel Levy, but I always thought that they were at least Spurs fans at heart, trying to do their best for the club, even if I didn’t agree with their methodology.

But something hit home when I saw and listened to the smarmy new Non-exec Chairman, Charrington the other day. With the alleged pot of gold in additional funding, he may well bring new success to the club, but at what cost? Talk is of a sell-out to Qatar or an odd business Consortium. That just smacks of the City and Newcastle blood money model. Not something that I could live with to be honest.

Being as superficial as the next man or woman, a few victories with some good attacking football and I will probably just banish these thoughts for another while, but for now I am having my doubts, that I am losing my Religion and my relationship with the club has changed permanently. Maybe I should just follow the club for the quality of the football alone and feck the history? We’ll see.

COYS!!

Unfortunately, my friend, we're getting old. Very little looks like it used to do. Yesterday, I resolved to try to adjust to a world where Reform may become the next government. Stupidity, greed and intolerance are where we're headed...I will fight it, but with every passing day, it looks more and more likely.

For Spurs, my moment came a few years ago...somewhere between the CL Final and the summer that Nuno ended up as manager.

I resolved that I wasn’t going back to the stadium to watch a game until the club was run properly - and that involved Levy being removed. I don’t know if I will go back. I watch almost no football, apart from Spurs...but our fortunes still matter greatly to me.

It's still my club, as it is yours. The owners can price us out of the stadium and call us customers...but as last week showed, ultimately they answer to us. It's our club, no matter what the silk suits say...OURS.

 

[PowerSpurs]

For me, players represent the ethos of the club on the pitch, or they did. Over the decades, we have naturally moved from a team that was predominantly born within a few miles of WHL, with a few interlopers from the Home Counties and wider UK

I think you have the wrong memories on this...only 12 members of the double squad played more than 10 matches. Only the full backs were born within a few miles of WHL.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

I think you have the wrong memories on this...only 12 members of the double squad played more than 10 matches. Only the full backs were born within a few miles of WHL.

Only you would have replied like that, PS!

I think you have misread my post, however. I still may well have exaggerated the situation, in fact I know I have, that's the nature of distant memories, but my support started 5 years after the Double era.
I would maintain that lads coming into the game through those generations were either local or were 'adopted' by the clubs, living in digs by the ground and spending their almost entire football schooling within the club.

But as Brian pointed out. I'm getting old, so please excuse my memory failures!

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Interesting question and a welcome distraction from having to endure England trying to play football.

Many causes and symptoms already mentioned by other posters.

All I will add is that these feelings of detachment and disassociation could well be the result of years of underachieving.

The punching above our weight of the Poch era created a defiance and a togetherness, unbelievable bonds between the players and fans as we felt that we were doing something special.

It's been a very long time since then, and in the interim the sad truth is finishes of 6th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th and 17th with just one trophy to show for a steadily worsening average league finish, couple with genuinely atrocious football to watch, has left a very underwhelming taste in the mouth.

It's not surprising people struggle to get excited when there has been so little to get excited about for so long. We've been punching below our weight for a very long time. Neglecting a squad with prime Kane and Son in it so that it limps into 8th with no European football or trophies is unforgivable imo. How Levy survived that beggars belief. But he did, and things simply got worse.

Even the EL win, which was an amazing night, for me was tainted by the fact that it was an awful game at the end of a largely awful campaign. I went straight from euphoria to worrying that Ange would now be kept on and we'd face another relegation fight as a result, which is an absurd thing to face after celebrating a trophy win.

Being totally honest, the euphoria after Amsterdam lasted much longer than that of Bilbao, for me.

So yeah, until we're at least making par and playing decent football doing it, I will continued to feel disconnected and underwhelmed.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Unfortunately, my friend, we're getting old. Very little looks like it used to do. Yesterday, I resolved to try to adjust to a world where Reform may become the next government. Stupidity, greed and intolerance are where we're headed...I will fight it, but with every passing day, it looks more and more likely.

For Spurs, my moment came a few years ago...somewhere between the CL Final and the summer that Nuno ended up as manager.

I resolved that I wasn’t going back to the stadium to watch a game until the club was run properly - and that involved Levy being removed. I don’t know if I will go back. I watch almost no football, apart from Spurs...but our fortunes still matter greatly to me.

It's still my club, as it is yours. The owners can price us out of the stadium and call us customers...but as last week showed, ultimately they answer to us. It's our club, no matter what the silk suits say...OURS.

You're right , of course, my friend!

There have been several times when my patience with the running of the club has been sorely tested.The post CL period being possibly the most significant.
The difference being that at no point do I remember thinking 'that might be that' as far as my connection to the club is concerned.
This just feels a bit different.

But as I said, give it a few stunning victories and I'll be good for another decade!

 

[The Changing Man]

Most people will be aware that whilst I will always be a Spurs fan, I have also been going to Gillingham on a regular basis for the best part of 40 years too, and along with points made in 'Lefts' excellent original post there are aspects to modern premier league football that make lower league football more attractive.

Firstly no VAR, a quick at the lino to check for a flag and then the unbridled joy of celebrating a goal. It is still generally a more honest game, players dive and keepers waste time, but not to the extent that these things happen at the top level. The football itself is largely unchanged, where premier league football is a very sterile game with Pep having made a very dull possession game the way to play, league 2 football has less quality but often more goalmouth action.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

The next WC being a case in point. This promises to an abomination - a politically driven land-grab, worse than Hitler hosting the '36 Olympics.

I wouldn't go that far, but the ticket sales using dynamic pricing is an abomination.
I didn't watch the last tournament and I won't be watching this one.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Interesting question and a welcome distraction from having to endure England trying to play football.

Many causes and symptoms already mentioned by other posters.

All I will add is that these feelings of detachment and disassociation could well be the result of years of underachieving.

The punching above our weight of the Poch era created a defiance and a togetherness, unbelievable bonds between the players and fans as we felt that we were doing something special.

It's been a very long time since then, and in the interim the sad truth is finishes of 6th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th and 17th with just one trophy to show for a steadily worsening average league finish, couple with genuinely atrocious football to watch, has left a very underwhelming taste in the mouth.

It's not surprising people struggle to get excited when there has been so little to get excited about for so long. We've been punching below our weight for a very long time. Neglecting a squad with prime Kane and Son in it so that it limps into 8th with no European football or trophies is unforgivable imo. How Levy survived that beggars belief. But he did, and things simply got worse.

Even the EL win, which was an amazing night, for me was tainted by the fact that it was an awful game at the end of a largely awful campaign. I went straight from euphoria to worrying that Ange would now be kept on and we'd face another relegation fight as a result, which is an absurd thing to face after celebrating a trophy win.

Being totally honest, the euphoria after Amsterdam lasted much longer than that of Bilbao, for me.

So yeah, until we're at least making par and playing decent football doing it, I will continued to feel disconnected and underwhelmed.

I don't think that we have been underachieving, barring trophy wins.
The problem is that the game's rigged.
The finances are part of it, but bringing in genuine crooks as club owners has ****ed it.
The rules no longer matter and you can only lose by playing by them.

I think that we all know that the Premier League money is ridiculous.
Going up against oil dictatorships and oligarchs sportwashing is just silly, though.
The top leagues are all dominated by a small handful of clubs crapping on everyone else, too.
Now they're all crying because they can't compete financially with Brentford, et al.
You've made your own product boring by hoarding the money. That's on you.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

I have also been going to Gillingham on a regular basis for the best part of 40 years too,

As a teenager and living in S London, I'd go with mates to Palace when Spurs were playing away. Never ever considered switching allegiances to them though.
Equally, in the late '80's, early '90's and now living in Enfield, I'd head off to watch Barnet in the Conference and then the FL. Loved going to watch the great football that the team played during that era and was thrilled they got promoted etc, but they were never 'my club'.

I doubt whether I will ever go to another live game, be it Spurs or anyone else. There is a local Cork Spurs gathering who travel across for games home and away religiously, but that's not for me these days.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

As a teenager and living in S London, I'd go with mates to Palace when Spurs were playing away. Never ever considered switching allegiances to them though.
Equally, in the late '80's, early '90's and now living in Enfield, I'd head off to watch Barnet in the Conference and then the FL. Loved going to watch the great football that the team played during that era and was thrilled they got promoted etc, but they were never 'my club'.

I doubt whether I will ever go to another live game, be it Spurs or anyone else. There is a local Cork Spurs gathering who travel across for games home and away religiously, but that's not for me these days.

Cork does have it's own team, of course, though they do have a fondness for red, so...

 

[The Changing Man]

As a teenager and living in S London, I'd go with mates to Palace when Spurs were playing away. Never ever considered switching allegiances to them though.
Equally, in the late '80's, early '90's and now living in Enfield, I'd head off to watch Barnet in the Conference and then the FL. Loved going to watch the great football that the team played during that era and was thrilled they got promoted etc, but they were never 'my club'.

I doubt whether I will ever go to another live game, be it Spurs or anyone else. There is a local Cork Spurs gathering who travel across for games home and away religiously, but that's not for me these days.

I have been to Underhill a few times to see Barnet play the Gills.

 

[SpursDisciple]

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