London attacks

Are you trying to compare someone being an idiot to someone deliberately out to kill innocent people astro?

Not one to point score but that's a pretty poor justification

 

Heard that said so many times. It's not even remotely similar. Just like with rapists or drunk drivers, driving with a mobile has punishment attached and the person committing the crime isn't setting out with the intention of killing themselves meaning they don't have to face the consequences afterwards.

They're not intending on killing anyone, they're just being stupid!

Extremists don't care what we do as they are prepared to kill themselves in the attack

 

Yeah, because I'm sure people on the watch list aren't being investigated. Not like being watched is the whole purpose of the watch list.

 

Do you think there are enough resources to investigate people who are on a watch list and do you think for people who we are 90% sure of being terrorists are allowed to be arrested in the interim?

Also what about the 400 radical terrorists we decided to let back into the country.

Only needs 1% of them to act like tonight and you get... whats happened tonight

 

No, but those laws protect all of us.
We're all angry and frustrated by these acts, but let's not turn into a bunch of fascists because of it eh?

 

So we continue to do ****all? Great!

 

I thought the conversation was about the country being soft on killers, but it seems you didn't mean those who were "just being stupid"

 

No, because what's next, people being arrested because the police think they're 90% sure of being criminals?

 

Did I say that?

 

I have a limited view of human rights, there are only a few I would up hold.
The right to life is top of the list.
The right to choose when/how to die would be a close second.
Their are quite a few others I believe in also but will not list them all.
What I don't think is a right are things like not being able to deport someone who has raped/killed in this country because he would have to face the consequence's of previously breaking the law in his own country.
Some rights have to be earn't not just granted to all.

 

What about the right not to be condemned for something you didn't do, for instance?
Let's get one thing straight here, I'm not in any way trying to justify or mitigate acts of wilful terrorism, I just take exception to the argument that we'll be better off without the ECHR.
It seems to me you're using a shameful act of murder to justify a political prejudice.
.

 

No, it was about people who plot for months in advance to murder people, not idiots who don't understand the possible consequence's of their actions,.

 

Not at all, I am saying we are letting people walk the streets who are "known to the authorities" because at the moment our hands are tied.
We would be better off without the ECHR in my opinion, but maybe that is because I think we don't need others to tell us what is right and what is wrong. Do you think the UK would turn into some kind of totalitarian dictatorship without the ECHR, however did we survive without it.
The world has moved on a bit since slavery and we have been at the forefront of it, I think we are just about civilised enough to know how people should be treated.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...etch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video

 

So basically most of what we led in before the ECHR was even thought of

 

I'm saying that you blaming the ECHR for our inability to effectively deal with terrorist attacks is opportunist and absurd.
Besides, I'd like to believe that the principles behind the Convention are mere common humanity, that they would be upheld by any civilised country, and that we would maintain them after we leave, so your argument becomes meaningless.

Anyway, there's a lot of reactionary extremism being displayed on here because feelings are understandably running high, so I'm going to quit the place for a while, because any objection to Draconian measures draws accusations of sympathising with the terrorists and I'm certainly not doing that.
So stay safe all and bye for now.

 

Nah i've always thought human rights were bollocks on certain things

That was before these attacks.

It only took us 8 years to deport abu qatada.

There are many good things about ECHR and of course i wouldn't want us turning into Big Brother but i'm sure as a civilized nation we would be able to get a happy balance between ECHR and Russia

 

I can live with a fair proportion of that

 

Thank **** I am not alone in that.
For me we always had the rights we needed (and always would have), there is just so much **** thrown in by the ECHR that it has become a joke.

 

Look ...if wanted to do the best of both worlds
...

We'd withdraw from the middle East at but with the warning...come near us and we will nuke you...

This is the problem with our approach over the last 50 years....oh oh we have to secure energy...etc.

Oh we have colonial guilt.

No...no... we don't need to control the area.

No...we can't implement our version of democracy on countries that are 200 years behind us ...they rightly just think it's a continuation of colonial ****e.

So back to it
..withdraw...dont whine when they abuse their population..because that's how we changed..riseup.

But...come near us
..we will wipe you off the earth