Comparison to other Managers is meaningless if finance is not considered. Depending on what tool - metrics you use success is up to 90% finance based. It is the biggest determinator of success in football. The 10% left is all about the acumen of the Manager. Well beyond being mediocre or poor should be expected due to Mr Johnson being provided with resource beyond the norm for Bristol City.
There are plenty of managers in all leagues who have spent a relative fortune and achieved nothing. Does that make them really really bad managers? 90% is nonsense. The sentiment I understand as LJ has been backed far more than any before him, but your post does him a disservice. The money has been spent well for the most part.
I think that's rubbish too. It's a simplistic statement that money buys the best players and success. To an extent it's perfectly true. However the whole concept of success being money oriented tends only to apply to the very top of the pyramid - viz Premier league level. The further down you go, and it applies at Championship level as well, the managership of a club, its' players and playing style is paramount. Money obviously helps but Wagner last season and possibly Warnock and Chris Wilder this season shows what the right manager with limited resources can do.
Its not a nonsense. League positions are determined by finance. Of course they are. This still leaves a enormous amount the Manager can influence. A well financed team should not have a bad Manager. Teams with massive budgets should have great ones - Chelsea./Man City/Man Utd. Its a sliding scale. My post does not do Mr Johnson a disservice. He should be expected to do well. Is he doing well? Very well.There is no excuse not to do so. Everything is in place for the Manager to do so. And it is now very much about him, his ability to show how good he is with that resource, and how he makes those marginal gains in matches to succeed further. Pisano made some interesting comments this week about BCFC and its facilities, its organisation, how it is set up, how Well it compares v Serie A, how everything is being thought about and taken care off, how thorough it all is .. Its all there now waiting to happen.
Rough figures from various sources so not 100% accurate for sure but league position and total spend season 2016/17: 5th - Huddersfield (£3.6m) 10th - Brentford (£4.4m) 11th - Preston (£0.25m) 12th - Cardiff (£3.7m) 13th - Aston Villa (£72m) 15th - Wolves (£30m) 17th - Bristol City (£10.6m) 18th - QPR (£10.8m) 19th - Birmingham (£7.8m)
No it is not accurate. Wages are not included and timescale. There is no year on year picture in a season in isolation. Individual seasons sees teams outperforming their pay scale, but it does not last. Villa spent so long at the level they did because of their resources, and the ability of those Managing them. Yeovil spent little time in the Championship and are now a level that is relative to their spending. Transfer fees and wages are relative to position - They also highlight how important the Managers, how massive the role is. Get an appointment wrong slide ... Villa have gone wildly wrong, an indictment of their Managers their coaching and the scouting of their players.
I think in general terms (which I'm going to go with seeing as you are) we can assume that wages roughly correlate with transfer fees, so that's a moot point. I'd argue we are probably a slight exception but for the most part that is a fair assumption. I still think your point is a nonsense. Of course in general finances greatly help a club but there are lots of examples where it doesn't, so to suggest that it's 90% finances (which is what my issue is with) is ridiculous. Watford are flying high in the Prem, yet skinted out entirely on their new stand which goes to show investment isn't necessarily readily available. Newcastle are doing okay, despite Mike Ashley's ancient thinking and lack of off-the-pitch investment. And to add to that, you can include West Ham, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, ourselves for years, MK Dons perhaps, all clubs who are or have underperformed v investment. My point, is that finances in football are not 90% of the final result. How you use those finances ultimately are. And LJ and the club in general have used those finances very well in recent years.
And how you use those finances is that 10%. More if you do not use figures from people like Szymanski (analyst). That is Mr Johnsons role. Without Mr Lansdowns year on year on investment/ability to service debt and loss, without that finance Bristol City are where? Gas level? Chelsea without Mr Abramovichs billion pounds? There is the correlation between resource and position.
That's fine. But size isn't everything, the how you use it is definitely more than 10% (and if it isn't then god help me I'm ****ed), as demonstrated above.
That is based on the modern day role of non footballing types who have nowt to do having made their money wanting something to play with ..like a football team! RR SL is not in that mould, he is british has an interest in sport, all sports and an interest in Bristol where the foundations of his empire started and grew... he was being swept along by the tide of fans with, and I say it without conviction to any individual, by those impatient and hooligan amoebic's approach, like daubing paint everywhere and being thteatening to life and limb. I did expect a good approach to the season when I saw the fixture list, as did quite a few who made a prediction and stuck to it. I was a few points short of what we attained so was a little bit happier. ROD, every team has some one who scores most of their goals, often when you check down the top scorers they are not necessarily in the top teams, and when they get transferred to a better class team for £xx million they fare less than expected. until it happens no one can say Engvall is crap or brilliant ... FAM Taylor Milan bobby out (heaven forbid) a recalled ENGVAL gets a chance and in x games becomes one of the top 5 scorers in the league? is he brilliant? or is he average? By average = compared to all the strikers, but in our team he is one of the top three? so if you like above the average of the strikers in the squad or out on loan... look down the list at the top 12 see who they play for.... minutes played, = time for each goal etc and the top 3 I would say was Bonatini Grabban and Sharp, Bobby would be in a group following these.. later in the season it will likely all change, as this is just a moment in time that comments apply to............
well I was on the same bus as you, but nearer the back and not a front door exit seat! however, I never doubted a change, it was stated and re iterated we needed 3 transfer windows to get it close to right, and any change was just being sucked back up the tube to a repeat of events in the past... so you were only 99% behind LJ then ...lol
I'm not going to give percentages but overall money "normally" produces success.......However, there are many exceptions to the rule and always will be. There are plenty of examples currently in the Premier that wasn't bankrolled getting there plus there's Leicester that actually won it Money alone guarantees nothing, surely it's how you use it.. There are plenty of managers you could give money to that would fail miserably and have.. LJ's done well with the money he's been given to create a good team.....I believe plenty of managers out there may not have done so well!!
No, I was 100% behind him, however, it seemed with "fan pressure" that LJ's days were numbered and so was only stating, that if there were to be a change, it should be done at the right time............You won't see a post from me calling for his head JG2!!
After a spectacular single variant Leicester have gone back to being Leicester. Its regressing to the mean. Which teams were not bankrolled to get to the Premiership? There may be an example of a club spending less to achieve Premiership status but I doubt it. Its pretty unromantic ... Blackpool went up with a tight tight budget with wage ceilings and its hard to see other clubs who have not pushed the boat out. Money alone guarantees nothing ... I think we can almost guarantee a budget like Shrewsburys of less than three/four million pounds will not propel a team into the EPL even with a Managerial genius at the helm. Want success pay players more and pay the most you can for the best to Manage them. City obviously can't hire Mourinho but there is a brutal truth there.
I didn't want him, and I still don't particularly like him (and can't warm to him), but our results this season aside from the losses at Brum and at home to Dirty Leeds have been impressive as has the LC run. I still maintain that at any other club in the land he would have been sacked and run out of town last season after the epically bad run that he oversaw, but the owner stuck by him. We'll see what the rest of the season brings. Like Wiz, I just want us to be successful or at least be as successful as we are able to be. I don't have to like who is in charge.
Plenty of teams managed the premiership with very little money in comparison......Huddersfield, Burnley, Watford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Swansea also Hull (back in the day).. I could go on...... Not just about the budget at Shrewsbury is it? What decent player wanting to further their footballing career would want to go to clubs like them??
Huddersfield are an interesting club but its an anomaly. Your list underlines how difficult it is to achieve success and how success correlates with finance. If was not about budgets would players have joined Bournemouth? Bournemouth posted a loss of thirty million pounds and were fined under financial fair rules to achieve promotion. Teams there made losses far beyond normal to achieve promotion. Tens of millions of pounds of loss. Middlesbrough lost similar amounts to Bournemouth on a larger income. The Swansea model now appears to be one that is no longer looked upon as pragmatic. New billionaire owners coming into football now spend ... The Chinese want success now and pay for it Burnley like WBA are an example of how important it is to appoint well to Manage their resources. I would rather watch kids football than those particular teams but both Mangers are exceptional at Managing what little they have. Primarily it is still the EPL's income pouring into those clubs that keeps them in place then the skills and knowledge of their Managers.
