Match Day Thread LIVERPOOL V TOTTENHAM

Not condoning the abuse of officials but until they themselves become accountable for their own mistakes, heated moments from managers will continue.

 

We’ve only started playing this way properly for the last 4-5 games with TAA coming so far inside.

He drifted in more from last January time I believe it was and we were still winning.

Started the season that same way and been we were ****. I don’t think that was system related, I think it was much more mental. Going so close, playing every game, short pre season due to stupid WC. We then start with same tactics and things are hit and miss, TAA still at RB but tucking in a bit rather than overlapping.

As I say I think the issues are then exposed more because the midfiekd of fab and Hendo in particular are just shot. Either mentally or physically or both, and it exposes us in an area where we were so strong yet underrated.

And now klopps changed things to try make us more solid in that middle by getting 4 players in there to stop teams bombing through it. We’ve actually won more games with this new role for TAA and the defence, however like any system it has a weakness which is it stretched the 3 defenders across the park.

We have seen us be a lot less exposed with teams running through the middle now though. The compromise I guess is that t least if teams get at us down the wing, they still have to get the ball into middle where we can defend, rather than before where they were running at our cb’s in middle of pitch because fab, hendo, Elliott are all ahead of the ball

 

Good point - but there was definitely a change this season where we isolated Mo out to the wing and also asked Trent to do far too much. We nullified our two most effective attackers - which is quite incredible.

Combined with signing Darwin, and an ageing midfield, we lost all cohesion and pressing intelligence. The actual pressing numbers are still high this season - but we're losing a lot more duels, slower to challenges and not pressing in a co-ordinated manner. Adding Jones, Jota, Gakpo and now Diaz, we now have better sustained pressing. Just need to upgrade the midfield now ...

 

Does make me laugh this ‘oh people see klopp do it so they think it’s ok’ rhetoric.

People see a lot of **** happen on tv and in real life, surely common sense tells you what is and isn’t acceptable as an adult?

Also might not be right, but this is their workplace. So it’s very very different from your under 8 game on a Sunday morning.

Im sure many people have been at their work place when pressure is telling and people have said or done things in a heated manner because they are trying to get results against tight timelines. Not saying it’s right, but people at the top of companies often lose their **** because of those pressures. It can have consequences in a number of ways, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen and it’s not because klopp or any manager has moaned at a ref.

 

Ryan Mason gave the ref dogs abuse after game. gave 4th official dogs buses during game.

David moyes went nuts at 4th office then berated the ref for 2 mins including very obvious foul mouth. no action

Cooper has had goes at refs over past 2 weeks for example no pen v man utd.

dyche has had a go.

arteta gave mason both barrells earlier in year.

guardiola has been at it.

but it's only a klopp issue.

 

Was literally going to say that Ryan Mason literally did the exact same thing in the SAME match!

I hope Klopp exposes Tierney ...

 

I've just watched it again and I'm even more convinced that it didn't touch Richarlison at all.

 

Agree there was a change with TAA not overlapping. But that wasn’t this season. We were having this debate mid last year where he was actually getting as many assists centrally as he was from wide. i remember because we spoke about Elliott playing rcm and actually offering the width with Salah tucked in rather than before where TAA would overlap and Hendo would cover TAA.

Klopp obviously had his reasons for it. Maybe saw Hendo cant do that covering job to same ability? Maybe TAA data was showing him struggling to cover the ground getting up and around Salah and back again etc.

Our press has def dropped off, no surprise with mane gone, firmino and Salah a year older and Salah never the best anyway. Maybe that promoted the change because it left teams with too much time to pick out the passes in the gaps around the press and with TAA too high up out wide left us exposed?

As I say, you can argue points for and against both. There was obv a reason for it, it hasn’t quite worked, but then whose to say if we’d tried to play exact same way as last year it wouldn’t have been even worse.

We can’t moan at klopp trying new things whe for 70% of this season we seemed to be trying to press high and being walked through middle of the pitch

 

I think Klopp expected Darwin to have integrated a lot quicker and picked up the pressing triggers. Unfortunately, Darwin has a long way to go.

It didn't help with Jota and Diaz both being out for long periods as well.

 

It doesn't help that Nunez hasn't in 11 months learned enough English to take basic instruction.

I don't mind a player never being confident enough to speak to media in english but they have to be able to understand whats going on.

Jota injury has been biggest of all. And its klopp's own fault as he left him on too long v arsenal and red lined him.

Diaz injury to April is down to medical staff. He should have had op immediately but lasted all of 1 training session in midseason camp to realise he needed is and then he's out to April. disastrous player management.

We did the same to thiago originally. Any time i hear "rest" now i get worried with LFC medical staff.

Gakpo has done well adapting to a different class of football and a totally different ask tactically.

However given our front three is now jota gapko salah we are in effect saying nope not even for 60mins can we press like we could. we need 5 bodies.

I am not so sure buying cms will fix this alone.

If we end up with this


alisson
X Konate VVD Robertson
Ugarte Trent X
Salah Gakpo Jota

That X in middle has to join a serious press up with the forward 3. if they cannot do it then we are back into this borrow a body.

Its as easy just forget that X and stick a 4231 down on paper with trent at 6. Just move the guy ffs.

 

That’s got to be a FFS

 

One thing that goes unsaid is why Klopp is mouthing off at the officials. Each incident has been about protecting his player's safety. This weekend and the last time he was in trouble for having a go were both about Salah being pushed and pulled and getting no protection. Luckily most of his have been body slams with no injuries.

We've seen the devastating results of referees not protecting players (and compounding it by giving decisions the other way) - assault on Virgil, Elliott's broken ankle, Diaz being clumsily tackled ending with Partey sitting on him and crushing his knee, just 3 horrendous long term injuries that resulted in no punishment for the perpetrators. Is it any wonder that Klopp gets agitated when yet another bad tackle goes unpunished. The individual player and the whole team is paying the price for such poor officiating. This is someone's livelihood. Okay it's a well paid job but that doesn't excuse officials from not doing their job.

Not saying Klopp's behaviour is always right but he's a man who shows massive emotion in all situations whether it's celebrations or fewms. He said in interview that he didn't know why he ran that way to celebrate. It wasn't to say anything to the fourth official because he had no beef with him. As others have said there's a list of managers who go overboard on the officials but once again it's Klopp who is singled out.

 

He celebrated in front of someone, you’d think he’d elbowed him

 

Klopp said what tierney said to him, and what klopp said the 4th official.

Not sure why klopp saying what he said is not right… seems a whole load of stuff over nothing. Klopp got bit emotional, acted stupidly and then all bene blown out of proportions by his comment about what ref said. Only benefit is maybe he didn’t express what he meant properly but seems like nothing tbh

 

personally if i was a 4th official Klopp would get at least a yellow in pretty much any match we are losing .Should point out the same applies to loads of others for example Arteta would end up red carded every game for not just refusing to stay in technical area but actually being on the field of play i.e touchline for significant proportion of the game.

 

I agree.
We all have valid criticism of individual officials, but respect needs to be shown to the role, if not the person - screaming abuse in someone's face because you don't like their decisions is not a reasonable way to behave.
And I completely disagree with the idea that it doesn't have a strong influence on upcoming generations.
I love Klopp but I do think he crosses the line of acceptability frequently. However, as has been noted, so do most other managers so singling him out is wrong.

 

If that can be confirmed by the FA
It’s a red card but for him it’s a yellow
That’s shows a clear issue

should be easy to sort now
And ftr - that statement isn’t okay for a ref to say imho

 

Klopp quoted Tierney as saying "For me it's red but because of him it's yellow."
Presumably "him" is the 4th official, but I'm still unsure of what that means. Is Tierney saying he was going to show a red but the 4th official told him it was only worthy of a yellow?
Klopp's English has improved a lot over the years, but it's still a little incoherent and I struggle to understand what he's trying to say quite often.

 

Yeah there’s nothing in this tbh, maybe he interpreted it at the time as ‘you’d be off because it’s you’

who knows or cares