exactly. where is that threshold between attempt to play and not really trying for a keeper if they are seen as automatically trying to save it even if they are nowhere near.
Irrelevant to the point. I repeat, he said " a keeper trying to save it", not one diving in the general direction of the ball. You can argue all you like over whether or not he was making a genuine attempt to save it, but Bisc's point assumed that and was therefore technically correct.
I'm not arguing anything. I'm just asking a question about where you think that limit is. I said so in the first place about this incident.
What I think is immaterial. It's a matter of opinion and the ref's opinion is the one that matters. Milk asked why it wasn't a red card, Bisc explained - and he was correct. Simple.
On this occasion Dubravka was actually very honest and pulled out, but his elbow clipped Jota's heel. A red card here would've probably resulted in a demand that the season is scrapped.
He is? Isn't this the 8th missed penalty out of 30 something? I guess, still thinking of the Gerrard days when a penalty meant almost certainly a goal.
We were talking about the keeper going for the ball for the Jota 'penalty', a very different scenario to the Pickford assault on VVD which WAS "evidently obvious"
Roberto Firmino and Fabinho were delighted to return to Anfield on Monday night and reacquaint themselves with their former Liverpool teammates. The Brazilian duo were back on Merseyside to watch the Reds defeat Newcastle United 4-2 and establish a three-point lead at the top of the Premier League. It represented their first visit to L4 since they both departed the club this past summer. "I'm very happy to be back here at home, at Liverpool and the stadium as well, Anfield," Firmino told Liverpoolfc.com. "I'm very grateful to God for bringing me these moments again, to watch the game. Of course I'm not playing but I watch the game and see the boys. "It's always emotional [to be here], you cannot forget you were here. We had a very good history here at the club that we achieved together and nobody can claim this history, it's already in the history [books]. We are here to support." 'Very happy to be back at home' - Firmino and Fabinho on special Anfield visit - Liverpool FC
I don't think it's possible to state where the threshold is or should be. In a game all three of keeper, opposition player and ball can be moving so quickly as to make, for example, a keeper's dive for the ball end up with him impeding the opposition player after the ball has gone although he was attempting a legitimate save. We can't know what's in the keeper's mind because he could equally be diving in madly with no hope of getting the ball. I just don't see how you can put a threshold in there.
In this case, the keeper himself has graciously said he had no argument with the penalty. He claims it was accidental, but said he felt contact. We can never know intent, but we do know if the keeper thinks it was a penalty... It was at least a genuine penalty.
as i said i'm just asking. I can personally think of many ways a keeper can assault a player without any intent of going for the ball. I mean if he grabs the opponents shorts or shirt and pulls him down is he ok? again to repeats myself this is just in general, i've not disputed the incident last night at all in terms of card or no card or red card. Its just a question in passing.
Dubravana has admitted there was contact. In fact, if you watch the replay, he makes contact with both legs for good measure. But as for Newcastle and their hysterical fanbase and one-eyed MoTD presenters, they just cynically laughed when their goal against Arsenal stood despite 3 different VAR checks (one of which completely ignored jumping on the back of Gabriel because the on-field ref had decided it was okay), so I laugh back at them.
Well Gross hauled down Szobbo as he was about to stroke the bass past the keeper and no red card was given, despite a resulting pen. After that decision I can't think what constitutes a red for denying a goalscoring opportunity with no attempt to play the ball apart from handling on the line.
I get that and thought I'd answered with that in mind. I agree on the grabbing shirts or shorts and there are other ways a keeper can foul a player with no attempt at playing the ball. The sticking point on the question you raised is that we can't read player's minds and know what their intentions are. When a keeper fouls a player, sometimes it's obvious, like Z said with the assault on Virgil but more often it isn't and we will all interpret it differently because the intent is far from obvious. At the end of the day we just have to rely on the VAR who seemingly can read minds
