Off Topic Liverpool fans!

[HoratioCarter]

I didn't say it did, in fact I specifically said I didn't absolve the troublemakers.

Back then EVERY club's fans had its troublemakers. People who only went to away games to fight. That is what football hooliganism was like - but there weren't killings at games.

If Hillsborough had been in as poor a state as Heysel Stadium then there wouldn't have been as many deaths there, simply because the walls of the Leppings Lane Pens would have given way.

Have you watched the documentary I posted? There was no trouble on the streets before the game nor in any other part of the stadium before the tragedy. Just in that one part where Liverpool and Juve fans were on opposite sides of a chainlink fence.

What do we say when away fans pelt home fans at the Stadium of Light? ****house away fans, but the club shouldn't have the away fans in such a position where they can cause trouble.

Crowd control is the responsibility of the stadium owner, the match organisers. It suited UEFA, Brussels and Belgian authorities to have British fans carry the entire blame for the Heysel disaster.

Britain sent a senior crowd safety officer from London Fire Brigade over to inspect and report on the disaster's causes. Despite talking to lots of sports reporters to find out what they would do to solve the hooliganism problem, Maggie Thatcher never even spoke to that officer on the phone, let alone have a meeting with him. So I guess it suited her too to be able to blame English fans from a labour metropolis.

The responsibility is the responsibiilty of the fans. Back in the day there was no need for separation of the fans.

 

[Draig]

The responsibility is the responsibiilty of the fans. Back in the day there was no need for separation of the fans.

And we would like to be able to go back to those days but there is no way that will happen in even my son's lifetime.

But not all fans are responsible for segregation (which started about 1975 season after a stabbing at a Blackpool v Bolton game and the violence wreaked up and down the country by Man Utd fans after they had been relegated to div 2).

Still, don't kid yourself that there was no fan violence before 1960. 'Roughs' were attacking referees and visiting players right back at the foundation of the football league.

From 1946 to 1960, there were an average of 13 incidences of fan violence reported per season, this going up to an average of 25 events per season between 1961 and 1968.

Leeds United were banned from Europe after their fans had rioted following the 1975 European Cup Final against Bayern Munich in Paris. Man Utd were banned in 1977 after their fans rioted before, during and after their away UEFA Cup game with Saint-Étienne.

Andy Nicholls' 2005 book 'Hooligans' is well worth a read.