Liebherr's Corner - The Off-Topic Chat Thread

Yeah, first time I read about this it said he fell over and then convinced the ref that he had in fact fallen over.

 

Well as the referee had given a free kick, it suggests he told the ref it was a dive.

 

Good player too.

 

Bob Crow, the General Secretary of the RMT Union, one of the two involved in the recent Underground strikes in London, has died aged 52. Bit of a shock that.

 

I wonder if that'll change their tune at all. Probably not.

 

And so it shouldn't.

 

rip

 

They are stuck in the past. It's a funny situation where a trade union is protesting a Conservative government's progressive policy.

 

Just bought a cuddly toy in a charity shop for £2 for my niece. Looked it up on Ebay and people are selling it for 50 odd quid.

 

Sell it, buy her another toy, and get yourself the new South Park game!

 

I was thinking the same, but she loves it.

 

He looked after the interests of his members, and was one of the most successful union leaders. He demonstrated the good side of Trade Unions - fighting for better working conditions, hours and pay. 52 is a young age as well.

 

Yes, far too young.

However I am not keen on their opposition to the plans to close ticket offices and modernise the way we use the Tube. Redundancies are an unfortunate side-effect of services becoming outdated and being replaced and they need to accept this. They have the power to bring London to a standstill and they keep doing it to protest these perfectly good plans for upgrades. They're protecting the interests of a few hundred employees at the expense of the interests of millions of commuters.

 

Unfortunately that is a trade union's job. Obviously, it is an unfortunate side effect to bring London to a standstill with the Tube strikes, but Bob Crow is interested in the members of his Union and their welfare in their jobs. I still find it amazing that the trade unions in the 21st century are the victims of such criticism from the media and the majority of the general public, despite the fact that all they want to do is to protect workers' rights and welfare. People will argue that they will always want more, in terms of more money and better conditions, but when the Mayor of London is not prepared to sit round a negotiation table to meet with Union leaders such as Bob Crow, then what other alternative is there?

Unfortunately this all stems back to Thatcher and in more recent years Blair and New Labour. The Unions have been portrayed as these 'awful' groups of people whose objective is to bring the country to a halt. Not a chance. These Unions are made up of working class people, and the people who make up the majority of the population in this country - teachers, nurses, civil servants.

I understand technology moves on, but I just think that it is a two way street. If the Government, or the person responsible for London (Boris Johnson) are not prepared to negotiate or even discuss this with Union leaders, what other choice is there.

 

I don't agree that this is just a typical case of "trade unions being vilified by post-Thatcher society", which I really don't think is a mindset held by the majority of the general public anyway. This is a special and uncommon case of a trade union actually being far too powerful and actually being bad for the working class of London (minus the few who work for the London Underground). I'm doubtful as to whether they should have any say in what the Mayor of London wants to do with his city, and I'm even more doubtful that this can even be negotiated, as either we're losing the ticket offices or we're not. There isn't really an available middle ground.

Eventually we're going to do away with ticket offices, and we're going to have driverless trains as well. The technology is available to make commuting more efficient, and it is going to benefit millions. Hundreds will be laid off, just as miners had to be laid off and workers in coal and oil plants will be laid off, because their services are becoming obsolete. I don't really appreciate these people standing in the way of progress. Anti-union attitudes of Thatcher and whoever else have nothing to do with it. I'm not the slightest bit anti-union, but I am anti-this-particular-stance-of-this-particular-union.

 

I more or less agree with that, part of the problem is that every London mayor election, whoever is not the mayor says "no ticket office closures!" etc, then when they win, they close them. Ken and Boris have both done it. Really the problem of whether we should have less ticket offices/drivers/whatever (I don't care but it's sort of inevitable) is pretty small fry compared to the shortage of skills that people who want to earn money are gonna have, compared to what the demand will be for in 10 years. Hope that makes sense. Basically if a computer can do your job, probably time to be worried.


Edit: I jumped in half way through so I should say that it's pretty shocking news.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-26527244

Yay for the locals calling the pot black.

 

Interesting fact: Harold Wilson shut down more mines than Thatcher.

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about this case in isolation, with regards to the Anti-union attitudes on modern day Britain. It has been progressive, and has built up through the Tory governments of the 80s and 90s, and continued under New Labour. For me, it is a problem. The fundamental aim of a trade union is to protect the rights of its members. That is what Bob Crow did with train drivers. The case is that these workers are so important for the day to day running of the underground, and London, which is why it causes such upheaval when they decide to strike.

You talk about a trade union "being far too powerful", how is this the case? They have chosen to strike. As do many Unions. However, because this is London, it is so much more serious than when teachers decide to strike, or Civil servants which has become so uncommon these days. I'm not suggesting that is your opinion, necessarily, but it disguises the fact that this Union is exercising a basic human right - the right to protest.

Johnson showed no indications that he wanted to help the workers on the Underground. You are probably right, that we will eventually do away with ticket offices, and have driverless trains, but I disagree with you that there is no middle ground in this debate. Workers don't all have to be dismissed, and not all ticket offices have to be closed. It could be a gradual process. Unfortunately, the mayor of London just buried his head in the sand, and continued to play the circus clown act.

You also mention the fact that you are "doubtful as to whether they should have any say in what the Mayor of London wants to do with his city". Interesting thought that. Elective dictatorship then. Boris, do what you want.

 

Interesting. What's your source?