LFW on Ramsey

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After the succession of managers & players that have performed well elsewhere but failed either before or after arriving at LR - the writing on the wall is that our problems are bigger than simply needing a new manager.


Can you actually explain what you mean by that? Actual details? Details related to the current squad of player specifically as that is most relevant would be good. Would be especially handy for me as someone who doesn't understand your point of view as to what problems bigger than the manager or the players and how you link this to there under-performance

What strikes me is its an easy point of view to chuck out but i'm yet to hear someone explain what they mean especially if they try to link it to current squad and last 2 summers of transfer windows
 
Just because I don't walk in fear that Fernandes will leave, or I suspect more pertinently don't agree with your typically robust and black and white perspective, doesn't make me drunk. In fact I'm on my first glass of white of the day. Tasty.

We are deep in financial and performance ****. Fernandes is accountable. That's it. If he couldn't bust the club by walking away would you be asking us not to bully him?

The post was ironic, in a post modernist kind of way.

Just think if you are making statements like yours you need to back them up and I don't see that you have
 
Just think if you are making statements like yours you need to back them up and I don't see that you have
No I don't this isn't a court of law, it's a place for idiots like us to waste time on our football team, I can write any unsubstantiated stuff I like. All I need is the evidence of my eyes on the playing side and the patent lack of progress and instability of management on the business side to conclude that, though he may be a nice bloke with his heart in the right place, Tone has been a car crash of an owner. It doesn't really matter how bad/good his predecessors were, he's the one we've got. Like Goldie, I was a fan of TF, doubts set in with the choice of Redknapp and then the failure to sack him after the first relegation.
 
There are many who have their views of what has gone wrong and what we should do to put it right, the reality is we have made mistake after mistake throughout the time TF has been owner. This is both in his appointments and their buying.

The panic signings that included SWP and Barton began a culture of overpaid and underperforming that has been endemic ever since and, for some reason, this is still affecting the club.

A reasonable start of 10 points from the first five games raised expectations, so the slump and more importantly, the poor performances since exacerbated Ramsey's demise but ask yourselves, have there been any performances this season you would call promotion form?

Remember, TF said we were going for consolidating and youth. Nothing changed until he returned a couple of weeks ago and it was announced that this priority had changed. Remember that, TF changed his mind yet again and Warnock was appointed shortly after.

It's my view TF is the problem not the solution, as long as he continues his bi-polar way of running the club, mistake after mistake, we'll continue to be a laughing stock. It's fair to say the next permanent managerial appointment will be the making or breaking of OUR club...
 
Fernandes is a complete moron when it comes to running a football club. He can just about run an airline but he consistently makes awful decisions on behalf of our club. Perhaps he listens to whichever ******s talk to him on Twitter.
 
Then we keep high earners and manage to get promoted. Just. But we did. TF gave me best day ever as a Rangers fan. Then again more shopping praised on all the forums but Redknapp then Ramsey ****ed it up. As a chairman he gave them a Chilean International right back but Ramsey played a kid who's now at Northampton. He gives them a player of the quality of Zarate. The manager picks Reece Greggo-Cox?!
There are many who have their views of what has gone wrong and what we should do to put it right, the reality is we have made mistake after mistake throughout the time TF has been owner. This is both in his appointments and their buying.

The panic signings that included SWP and Barton began a culture of overpaid and underperforming that has been endemic ever since and, for some reason, this is still affecting the club.

A reasonable start of 10 points from the first five games raised expectations, so the slump and more importantly, the poor performances since exacerbated Ramsey's demise but ask yourselves, have there been any performances this season you would call promotion form?

Remember, TF said we were going for consolidating and youth. Nothing changed until he returned a couple of weeks ago and it was announced that this priority had changed. Remember that, TF changed his mind yet again and Warnock was appointed shortly after.

It's my view TF is the problem not the solution, as long as he continues his bi-polar way of running the club, mistake after mistake, we'll continue to be a laughing stock. It's fair to say the next permanent managerial appointment will be the making or breaking of OUR club...

That's more or less what I had in mind and was going to say. Here's a good piece by Neil Dejyothin ...

What goes around, comes around…

by Neil on November 5, 2015 in blog (everything)

Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey are not as naive as some think, for two so-called “inexperienced” men, they undermined and ousted Harry Redknapp and his backroom team in a coup so sly it went undetected and unnoticed by many. This is Harry – one of the craftiest and experienced operators around.

Now Neil Warnock, another masterful player at these things, has simply completed the merry-go-round and done it back to them. Football.

But pulling cotton wool over naive supporters’ eyes or each other is the done thing at Rangers these days. It’s easy – whether it’s Fernandes, Warnock, Redknapp or someone else. They’re all at it. It shows we have a weak board with little standards or direction.

continues here ... http://www.qprtoday.net/
 
There are many who have their views of what has gone wrong and what we should do to put it right, the reality is we have made mistake after mistake throughout the time TF has been owner. This is both in his appointments and their buying.

The panic signings that included SWP and Barton began a culture of overpaid and underperforming that has been endemic ever since and, for some reason, this is still affecting the club.

A reasonable start of 10 points from the first five games raised expectations, so the slump and more importantly, the poor performances since exacerbated Ramsey's demise but ask yourselves, have there been any performances this season you would call promotion form?

Remember, TF said we were going for consolidating and youth. Nothing changed until he returned a couple of weeks ago and it was announced that this priority had changed. Remember that, TF changed his mind yet again and Warnock was appointed shortly after.

It's my view TF is the problem not the solution, as long as he continues his bi-polar way of running the club, mistake after mistake, we'll continue to be a laughing stock. It's fair to say the next permanent managerial appointment will be the making or breaking of OUR club...

Well said Sooper. That is the point I have been making on the "Dear Mr Fernandes" thread. Car crash is an understatement.
 
That's more or less what I had in mind and was going to say. Here's a good piece by Neil Dejyothin ...

What goes around, comes around…

by Neil on November 5, 2015 in blog (everything)

Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey are not as naive as some think, for two so-called “inexperienced” men, they undermined and ousted Harry Redknapp and his backroom team in a coup so sly it went undetected and unnoticed by many. This is Harry – one of the craftiest and experienced operators around.

Now Neil Warnock, another masterful player at these things, has simply completed the merry-go-round and done it back to them. Football.

But pulling cotton wool over naive supporters’ eyes or each other is the done thing at Rangers these days. It’s easy – whether it’s Fernandes, Warnock, Redknapp or someone else. They’re all at it. It shows we have a weak board with little standards or direction.

continues here ... http://www.qprtoday.net/

That's absolutely spot-on Nines, sums up our 'malaise' in a nutshell...
 
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There are many who have their views of what has gone wrong and what we should do to put it right, the reality is we have made mistake after mistake throughout the time TF has been owner. This is both in his appointments and their buying.

The panic signings that included SWP and Barton began a culture of overpaid and underperforming that has been endemic ever since and, for some reason, this is still affecting the club.

A reasonable start of 10 points from the first five games raised expectations, so the slump and more importantly, the poor performances since exacerbated Ramsey's demise but ask yourselves, have there been any performances this season you would call promotion form?

Remember, TF said we were going for consolidating and youth. Nothing changed until he returned a couple of weeks ago and it was announced that this priority had changed. Remember that, TF changed his mind yet again and Warnock was appointed shortly
after.

It's my view TF is the problem not the solution, as long as he continues his bi-polar way of running the club, mistake after mistake, we'll
continue to be a laughing stock. It's fair to say the next permanent managerial appointment
will be the making or breaking of OUR club...

Well the Routledge example I gave and lack of spine to inherit as we were carried up by one player who then had his own much analysed story, the
fact we stayed up that year plus the fact it was 4 yeara ago (teams have gone from league one to comfortable prem in less time) explain that

To prove that we have a culture of overpaid panic signings. Do you not think considering the 8 out of ten we gave it on this board and the broad support we gave this summer makes that criticism outdated? I would say your view became entrenched because people like SWP and Hoilett have had such long contract despite the board learning from those lessons that reminder is still stuck to us for another season

As for this year Fernandes is bang on to expect promotion. If you look at our squad and honestly think it's not reasonable to expect we push for promotion then we'll literally never be good enough.

Plus if u look at the last 10 years there is a 3% chance we'll go up next year which means it's even more reasonable to focus on this year.

As you say not a single good performance But we're 13th. Our individual quality has got us there. If we get a decent manager in who can get good team performances watch us shoot up the league might be a few on here looking silly
 
It's Fernandes' fault, IMO, that we aren't blooding young players as was the original mandate before he stuck his oar in and moved the goalposts on Ramsey. With Harriman and/or Furlong in for Perch, Yun and/or Kpekawa in for Konchesky and Doughty in for either of the clusterfucks we play in midfield the team would be no worse at the very least and we'd be building something not entirely built on sand.

There were lads considered good enough for a run out in the Prem who have got nowhere near a game this season. Why? My money is on Fernandes
 
Just read Clive's whole article. Personally I think it's a brilliant piece and raises some serious concerns about the medium and long term future of the club. I'd say we're considerably more likely to be League 1 (or lower) club in five years than a Premier League one.
 
Can you actually explain what you mean by that? Actual details? Details related to the current squad of player specifically as that is most relevant would be good. Would be especially handy for me as someone who doesn't understand your point of view as to what problems bigger than the manager or the players and how you link this to there under-performance

What strikes me is its an easy point of view to chuck out but i'm yet to hear someone explain what they mean especially if they try to link it to current squad and last 2 summers of transfer windows

I'll say it again in simpler terms.

The club has, for several years now, employed individuals that have good track records elsewhere.

For some reason these individuals have failed to perform as expected for ours and ended up moving on or staying at great cost to the club - some have even (after they have departed) been successful once again. e.g. (...and off the top my head, there may well be more)

Puncheon - sold to Palace, Premier League
Granero - Real Sociedad, La Liga
Vargas - Bundesliga 1, Copa America Winner
Isla - Juventus/Trabonzpor, Copa America Winner
Caulker - loaned back to Premier League
Ferdinand (x2 brothers) - we retired 1, the other looking to a PL return with SFC
McCarthy - Palace, Premier League
Mutch - sold to Palace, Premier League
Mbia - went to Sevilla - won the Europa League
Bosingwa - signed for **** loads of cash in wages
Samba - £12.5m
Hoilett - who knows the witchcraft that has robbed him of his talent

Logic dictates there must be a common theme or factor in their failure to achieve the levels they reached either previously or subsequently. Or maybe they are all **** players.

Anyway... You knew what I meant.

Happy to disagree

Seagull
 
This Clive increasingly doesn know what what **** he's talking about. Dangerously narrow and warped view. Irresponsible considering amount of Rangers fans reading this. He is a victim of what he says in his own article, "You become entrenched in your view, it becomes extreme". So he has his blinkers on.

One more current example, of him not getting it is his worries about loans being borrowed against Air Asia Shares not actually owned by TF. This is simply concern for Credit Suisse it I not a concern for anyone else. Simplest comparison is its the equivalent of someone building a block of flats, selling a chunk of these flats and then taking a loan out against the values of those flats they dont directly own, but as they don't own them the bank can't come along and take those flats. It is the banks own reckless lending. Steps are being taken to hook the loan privately but again no link to Rangers. The only link is less money can be thrown at the club perhaps but surely that's only a positive in Clive's view.

Also disgraceful to say that TV money was from what Bhatia and Warnock achieved for 3 out the last 4 years. Lots wrong here. Firstly when TF came in he kept us up. Now when you look at the team that came up. We only went up because of Adel. The biggest impact any player had on the team in 40 years. He was a one off, chairman's deserve no credit here. It was the sort of player we stumble on every 20 years or so if we are lucky. That's what got us up.

Look at; - Palace, Zaha BolasiE, - Swansea Williams, Rangel, Britton, Dyer. Leicester; Vardy, Drinkwater, Mahrez etc.

TF didnt inheret a team that will form our backbone for years. Our one standout after the promotion year from that team was Faurlin and he did his ACL in Jan.

Another good example of handicap from previous board from a team single handledly carried up (take Adel out that team and it wasnt even a play off team let alone champs) is Routledge.

Routledge. Stand out player in class below Adel. Ours for £1.5m but the current board including Bhatia wouldn't pay for him. So as our transfer window and targets passed us by TF came in with a scatter gun approach but it worked. We stayed up (Clive seemingly forgets this).

Hughes, an appointment who no one can moan at without hindsight and who after a period of low turnover has actually gone trigger happy with signings again this summer at Stoke. TF gave money to men with good reputations and trusted them. It's normal in business to buy into areas you have no experience but then put people with experience in charge and you provide the money while they get on with it. A Middle Eastern client of mine do this to great effect. TF put faith in Hughes and Hughes ****ed it up. Then faith put in Harry and Harry ****ed it up. TF buys Mbia and Granero, two top class players but through a combination of bad luck and **** managers for us they arent that great and other bell ends get picked ahead of them. More bad luck as well that he gets pelters for. Remy supposed to leave in July for no loss. Gets arrested for rape. No side will touch him. So goes on loan. Next year he fails a medical at Liverpool. Torres leaves Chelsea late in summer we lose him. If it wasn't for a rape case he would have left a year before!

Then we keep high earners and manage to get promoted. Just. But we did. TF gave me best day ever as a Rangers fan. Then again more shopping praised on all the forums. We actually gave it an 8 out of 10 on here!!!!

http://www.not606.com/threads/rate-our-transfer-window-out-of-10.275981/

Surely this is more evidence of a chairman doing his part and the manager ****ing it up?! But Redknapp then Ramsey ****ed it up. As a chairman he gave them a Chilean International right back but Ramsey played a kid who's now at Northampton. He gives them a player of the quality of Zarate. The manager picks Reece Greggo-Cox?!

The first bad appointment without hindsight was Ramsey. But Clive at the time couldn't even see this "So it's difficult to be too critical of today's news that Chris Ramsey, as expected, has been made the permanent head coach at QPR on a three year contract. After all, it's clearly part of a plan"

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/...-article-regarding-Ramsey-from-Loft-for-Words

If we get a decent manager in I will take a tiny bit of extra pleasure in the proof that we do actually have a team that with a decent manager will breeze it's way up this league.

Hopefully this is contributed to by players like Luongo and Chery maybe even Smithies and also Phillips and Austin who all perfectly demonstrate that the valid criticisms are outdated.

He may also want to acknowledge for a balanced piece the £60m of debt written off in the summer that maybe our overlords aren't so evil after all

Would love it if he took some of the views above into consideration as the hounding of TF is dangerous. There is a serious amount of debt they have responsinility for but there is a danger that if they are bullied too much they will simply walk away and write of their losses. Then we go out of business. So why not look at recent evidence, transfer business going the right way, writing off loans, no longer throwing silly money at idiots and not punish and bring up issues from 4 years ago

I don't always agree with your views Damage, but that is an excellent post.
 
Well the Routledge example I gave and lack of spine to inherit as we were carried up by one player who then had his own much analysed story, the
fact we stayed up that year plus the fact it was 4 yeara ago (teams have gone from league one to comfortable prem in less time) explain that

To prove that we have a culture of overpaid panic signings. Do you not think considering the 8 out of ten we gave it on this board and the broad support we gave this summer makes that criticism outdated? I would say your view became entrenched because people like SWP and Hoilett have had such long contract despite the board learning from those lessons that reminder is still stuck to us for another season

As for this year Fernandes is bang on to expect promotion. If you look at our squad and honestly think it's not reasonable to expect we push for promotion then we'll literally never be good enough.

Plus if u look at the last 10 years there is a 3% chance we'll go up next year which means it's even more reasonable to focus on this year.

As you say not a single good performance But we're 13th. Our individual quality has got us there. If we get a decent manager in who can get good team performances watch us shoot up the league might be a few on here looking silly

No offence Damage, but you strike me as the type of person who would take shopping back to the supermarket and argue for a refund if there was a mark on the packaging let alone the product.

We stayed up against the odds by winning our last five home games courtesy of Dalglish arrogantly subbing key players when he thought we were done for in the Liverpool match. It was a great effort but Hughes then f*cked it up royally with his signings, more of the same.

You can argue till you're blue in the face but it doesn't alter the fact we are way off the pace at the moment and our defence, or lack of it, is the main reason. Yes, a good manager could do better but we need creativity and defenders who can defend as a unit. Whether achieved by loans or January signings that is the only way we'll get back in the running. This squad, without some changes, isn't good enough. It's not too late but our next 10 matches will decide our fate...
 
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No I don't this isn't a court of law, it's a place for idiots like us to waste time on our football team, I can write any unsubstantiated stuff I like. All I need is the evidence of my eyes on the playing side and the patent lack of progress and instability of management on the business side to conclude that, though he may be a nice bloke with his heart in the right place, Tone has been a car crash of an owner. It doesn't really matter how bad/good his predecessors were, he's the one we've got. Like Goldie, I was a fan of TF, doubts set in with the choice of Redknapp and then the failure to sack him after the first relegation.

I share the criticisms of Tone in many ways.
However, can I just point out that, since my youngest starting coming to games regularly (around 6 years or so) he has seen possibly as much success than many of us have over 50 years or so!!
Together with my two lads I have witnessed the following:
Winning the Championship with a once in a generation player, Adel, who was worth the ticket money on his own;
Watching Rangers get presented with the Championship Trophy;
Watched Rangers escape relegation from the Premier League with some heart thumping wins at Loftus Road;
Watched 40,000 Rangers fans turn half of Wembley and the surrounding area blue and white for a day and enjoyed winning a play off final that none of us who were there will ever, ever forget;
Together we have watched some of the best players in the World grace the Loftus Road pitch.
There were some bad times too of course.

Not too shabby for a smallish club from West London, with a good reputation for playing decent football over the years.
 
I share the criticisms of Tone in many ways.
However, can I just point out that, since my youngest starting coming to games regularly (around 6 years or so) he has seen possibly as much success than many of us have over 50 years or so!!
Together with my two lads I have witnessed the following:
Winning the Championship with a once in a generation player, Adel, who was worth the ticket money on his own;
Watching Rangers get presented with the Championship Trophy;
Watched Rangers escape relegation from the Premier League with some heart thumping wins at Loftus Road;
Watched 40,000 Rangers fans turn half of Wembley and the surrounding area blue and white for a day and enjoyed winning a play off final that none of us who were there will ever, ever forget;
Together we have watched some of the best players in the World grace the Loftus Road pitch.
There were some bad times too of course.

Not too shabby for a smallish club from West London, with a good reputation for playing decent football over the years.
Fair enough Col, it's a personal experience. In the TF era I think it boils down to a run of 5 home wins that kept us up and a day out at Wembley though, and from where I sit our reputation for playing decent football (the thing I am most interested in and what I had hoped most for from Ramsey) is just a memory. No argument about seeing some great players at LR, although it was a painful day (remember the traffic?) Suarez was just outstanding in Liverpool's 3-0 win, Sanchez was wonderful for Arsenal last year and (brace yourself) Cesar was world class in our 0-0 with City. I know there are many others as well, just the 3 that came first to mind.

Two promotions, two relegations and £200m plus of debt to show for it. A smattering of games which were great to be at. A fan base which, on its day, can make LR rock to the foundations, but more frequently nowadays seems to want to destroy its own players at the slightest opportunity.

I think Damage's point is that TF can't be blamed for the failure of various managers, whereas mine would be that he can be held accountable and there is a lot more wrong than just poor managerial appointments.
 
Can someone please explain to me just what they think TF is actually doing to inspire the poor performances of the managers he has employed. In order to do right by our club he's taken on the guy that most people rated as the best English manager of his generation and then the man who most people thought was good enough to be the England manager and given both all the resources they asked for. A recipe for disaster clearly.
 
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I'll say it again in simpler terms.
The club has, for several years now, employed individuals that have good track records elsewhere.
For some reason these individuals have failed to perform as expected for ours and ended up moving on or staying at great cost to the club - some have even (after they have departed) been successful once again. e.g. (...and off the top my head, there may well be more)
Puncheon - sold to Palace, Premier League
Granero - Real Sociedad, La Liga
Vargas - Bundesliga 1, Copa America Winner
Isla - Juventus/Trabonzpor, Copa America Winner
Caulker - loaned back to Premier League
Ferdinand (x2 brothers) - we retired 1, the other looking to a PL return with SFC
McCarthy - Palace, Premier League
Mutch - sold to Palace, Premier League
Mbia - went to Sevilla - won the Europa League
Bosingwa - signed for **** loads of cash in wages
Samba - £12.5m
Hoilett - who knows the witchcraft that has robbed him of his talent
Logic dictates there must be a common theme or factor in their failure to achieve the levels they reached either previously or subsequently. Or maybe they are all **** players.
Anyway... You knew what I meant.
Happy to disagree
Seagull

Bosingwa, is the only one where we should have known better but he signed in August 2012 and left more than 2 years ago
The absolute crucial point that you fail to achieve to give your point any credibility is linking their under-performance to TF and not to bad management.
Without linking it and specifically with the current squad to TF as his fault with a reasoned explanation I don't feel you have a point

No offence Damage, but you strike me as the type of person who would take shopping back to the supermarket and argue for a refund if there was a mark on the packaging let alone the product.

We stayed up against the odds by winning our last five home games courtesy of Dalglish arrogantly subbing key players when he thought we were done for in the Liverpool match. It was a great effort but Hughes then f*cked it up royally with his signings, more of the same.

You can argue till you're blue in the face but it doesn't alter the fact we are way off the pace at the moment and our defence, or lack of it, is the main reason. Yes, a good manager could do better but we need creativity and defenders who can defend as a unit. Whether achieved by loans or January signings that is the only way we'll get back in the running. This squad, without some changes, isn't good enough. It's not too late but our next 10 matches will decide our fate...

No offence but you come across as an unintelligent bloke who hasn't thought through his opinion. TF has been the chairman while some managers and players have performed lower than expected. He's bought seemingly good players and case of Hughes and Redknapp well respected managers but they've been below expectations. So you say it is TF's fault but when asked to explain that link, why you believe that to be the case you've even attempted to do so. I suspect because you cant.

Really is contradictory to say we stayed up because Dalglish arrogantly substituted players. Coates came on as a sub in that game.... scored a pretty good goal. Henderson £18m came on at 0-0. Then at 2-1 on comes £35m man Carroll for Suarez. A stretch to call it a capitulation. Do you know who scored the second and a few other key goals in that run...? Cisse. Who TF brought in

Next year Hughes was backed and an at the time respected scout in Rigg. It went tits up but then moving in to more recent past. Lessons learned by TF at least (while still let down by managers). I just had a quick look on the votes on the poll I posted in my first post about last seasons transfer window. You gave it a 7 out of 10. So TF hasn't done that bad then has he? Plus this window. Any major issues there. We shopped in a budget. Wouldn't pay Ream silly wages. Brought in Angella who got promoted last year. Surely what you are happy with.

If you think this squad has performed to the best of its ability then fine. I don't believe it has and am hopeful if we get a proper manager in everything is there for a good go at promotion although top 2 is now harder after the bad start under Ramsey. If you can explain how this under-performance is TF's fault and not Ramsey's for doing things like playing Henry at right wing, behind the striker or on the pitch in general then i'll be happy to hear it and understand a point I cant see being justified in the slightest when looking at the current squad and recent past
 
.

I think Damage's point is that TF can't be blamed for the failure of various managers, whereas mine would be that he can be held accountable and there is a lot more wrong than just poor managerial appointments.

Please explain what?!?!?!!?!?!?! Recent past