levy panicking

[NSIS]

Don't do this. He's only been there a few months. He's presently doing better than van Gaal, Rodgers and Martinez

Agreed. Just a short time ago most were saying that we have to give him a decent chance. Even if we have to write this season off, effectively. The last thing we need is yet more instability, and yet another new manager. Assuming we can find anybody foolhardy enough to take the job.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

This thread is not toargue to get did of pochetino...its to discuss if levy will stick with him given his previous track record of not backing managers

Yes, just don't go there. Don't sow the seed, tempt fate or whatever the correct metaphor is.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Yes, just don't go there. Don't sow the seed, tempt fate or whatever the correct metaphor is.

Its like the philosophical question from the matrix now is it?
"If I hadnt said about the broken vase would you have broken it?"

It is simply a football chat site ... so I was simply chatting...wasnt going anywhere ... just chatting

 

[The Mighty Thor]

I still think we might have de Boer one day.

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

Harry might be available in a few weeks if he don't get his act together

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

What do we expect from Spurs ?
We have no chance of top 4 from day 1 of the season.
Poch is a entertaining mid table manager, another cheap outside Levy Punt.
No he should not be sacked as he has had no chance from the start as every other
manager. Miracles are impossible as the club hierarchy stifle ambition . The apologists
are like a 5th column , who proudly praise our prudent bookkeeping .
I find my gradual erosion of success comforting as you can switch off easier each year and
reflect on the joys of life.

 

[junction8spurs]

I'm not being at all argumentative. I just don't see the point in discussing whether 5 losses, or 5 more games without a win would see Pochettino sacked. It's all fine lines at the moment, had we won against Sunderland(the own goal was unlucky and totally against the run of play) then we'd be sitting pretty on a good start regardless of today's result. I don't see the point in worrying too much about worse case scenarios when we're still just a good result away from having plenty of reason to be positive again.

Ramos had us bottom of the league after a quarter of the season. Jol had us in the relegation zone after a quarter of the season. Can't remember where Santini had us but we played with 2 banks of 4 that rarely left their own half, it was **** to watch. Even if we did end up in the relegation zone it wouldn't be the same as Ramos because our poor form with him stretched back to the previous season(something ridiculous like 2 wins since Feburary, I think) and Jol had been on a similarly bad run at the end of his previous season.

Fair enough ... guess we have different views about what is and aint worth chatting about.

But I totally disagree with you about jol...our directors first approached ramos in the close season...they were photographed meeting with him after the season started...he was sacked cos they thought ramos was the answer and were prepared to write off that season...and were pleasantly suprised when we won the carling cup. We treated jol appalingly and spurs form had sod all to do with it in my opinion

As for ramos ... 1/4 of a season...it was 8 matches and he was sacked before the end of october just 8 months after winning 1 of our only 2 trophies in the previous 17 years

Ramos wasn't sacked on just those 8 matches, the previous season we had a run of something like 1 win in 13 games. Add to the stories of players unrest etc etc, that's why he was sacked. Santini walked out after a few game, can't blame levy for that one.


I'd be shocked and disappointed if poch was axed this early and I just can't see it happening.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Levy won't sack Poch this season, for the simple reason that it will be an admission of yet another failure on his own part; by sacking Poch, Levy will be attracting severe criticism of himself, and I think the fans (who were more than edgy with him at the end of last season) will make his position untenable.

Whether or not it will be right for the club for Levy not to sack Poch (which is what I understand the OP to be implying with his question), we simply cannot tell at this stage. I don't think Poch has been an abject disaster for us, and I can see what he's trying to do, and kinda understand how that might work for us. I am also prepared to accept that it will take time for him to put that all in place.

If you all recall, I preempted all of this before the season began, by expressing my opinion that we won't be getting top 4 this season, and that Levy ought to come out and announce to the media that this is a development year and that Poch will be given time to build his own team. The fact that Levy hasn't done that implies to me that he is expecting too much of Poch and that there is the possibility that he may sack him. But, as I mentioned above, I think he will draw back from doing that this season, because he will know that he will take all of the flak and his own position will be irreparably damaged by it.

 

[RobSpur]

If poch fails, levy has to go imo, or at least move to a completely non footballing role.

 

[Boss]

If poch fails, levy has to go imo, or at least move to a completely non footballing role.

I doubt Levys position is reliant on manager performance as if it was he wouldn't be in the job. Lewis wouldn't risk 13 years of building up the club in a certain way with Levy in control just to suddenly think '' this isn't working with Levy as chairman ':. To Lewis we are a success, probably a major success and when we're eventually sold they will make a huge profit so Levy is only stepping aside when Enic sell up.

 

[Spurf]

If we go on playing like we did against WBA then the sooner he goes the better. If it's just a transitional phase while he gets his act together then ok.

So on balance he will need more time. I just hate to think we are in for a similar season to the last one.

Sidney Fiddler:I find my gradual erosion of success comforting as you can switch off easier each year and
reflect on the joys of life.

That is so true, the last 2 or 3 seasons are eating away at my enthusiasm, this last loss against WBA was greeted with resignation by me. A few seasons ago I would have been very angry.

I am almost on the verge of saying bring back Harry.................................. I said almost!

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

No point bringing back 'Arry without bringing back the players he had - not least Bale, Modric and vdV. He had A list players in a number of positions - it makes a hell of a difference.

 

[O.Spurcat]

If we go on playing like we did against WBA then the sooner he goes the better. If it's just a transitional phase while he gets his act together then ok.

So on balance he will need more time. I just hate to think we are in for a similar season to the last one.



That is so true, the last 2 or 3 seasons are eating away at my enthusiasm, this last loss against WBA was greeted with resignation by me. A few seasons ago I would have been very angry.

I am almost on the verge of saying bring back Harry.................................. I said almost!

I tell you what we could do with bringing back, and that is a few players who actually give a toss about the club. That would make a heck of a difference in my opinion.

 

[Boss]

No point bringing back 'Arry without bringing back the players he had - not least Bale, Modric and vdV. He had A list players in a number of positions - it makes a hell of a difference.

Them A list players are making a hell or a difference for Man Utd.

 

[Billy The Spur]

Our next three games are Arsenal (a) Saints (h) and City (a), I can only see a maximum of 3 points out of those fixtures and the way Southampton have started 3 points against them will be no guarantee, we could see ourselves slipping further down the table over the next few weeks, and you can guarantee the media will be all over it like a rash if we do, the pressure could start to build on Poch if some good results do not come.

The WBA game was standard Spurs sadly, we have always been a charity organisation for relegation threatened clubs......... playing awful football? struggling in the relegation zone?..... need a major confidence boost?........then come along to White Hart Lane and have 3 points courtesy of Tottenham Hotspur.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Fair enough ... guess we have different views about what is and aint worth chatting about.

But I totally disagree with you about jol...our directors first approached ramos in the close season...they were photographed meeting with him after the season started...he was sacked cos they thought ramos was the answer and were prepared to write off that season...and were pleasantly suprised when we won the carling cup. We treated jol appalingly and spurs form had sod all to do with it in my opinion

As for ramos ... 1/4 of a season...it was 8 matches and he was sacked before the end of october just 8 months after winning 1 of our only 2 trophies in the previous 17 years

Sorry, I was thinking that it was 9 matches, which is basically a quarter of the season. As I said and as Junction said, it was also because of the results at the end of the previous season. When you're rock bottom after 8 games of the season then you're in trouble, wait much longer for it to turn around and you're risking an awful lot.

I don't disagree with Jol's sacking being badly handled, or him being incorrectly blamed for much of what was wrong with the club at the time. However, the signs were the club was going in the wrong direction at the time and all the voices at board level were putting the blame on Jol(a lot of the fans were too, I recall). It was Jol or Comolli and Levy sided with the latter.

Even if you take Jol and Ramos' sackings as being the reason for the team's performance that season, Pochettino could lose the next league games and have far more points than Ramos did when he was sacked and if he took 1 point from the next 5 he'd have more than Jol. Will Levy sack Pochettino if we lose our next 5 league games? Well on past evidence you'd have to say it's a strong possibility and he'd deserve it too because it would be a terrible start, we're along way from that though.

The reasons I don't think it's discussion worthy is because it's a hypothetical based on a worst possible outcome and an extreme one at that. There's not a manager in the league that wouldn't be under pressure after 9 games without a win, regardless who the chairman is. It's a reaction of negativity to look at our next 5 games and think we'll go without a win. City are 4 without a win too and I bet their fans aren't speculating about worst case scenarios and their expectations are much higher than ours. If we put half the energy that we waste doom mongering into getting behind the team we might actually have a good atmosphere at the stadium, no one's quicker to knock Spurs down than our own fans and that to me is sad.

 

[NSIS]

O

Our next three games are Arsenal (a) Saints (h) and City (a), I can only see a maximum of 3 points out of those fixtures and the way Southampton have started 3 points against them will be no guarantee, we could see ourselves slipping further down the table over the next few weeks, and you can guarantee the media will be all over it like a rash if we do, the pressure could start to build on Poch if some good results do not come.

The WBA game was standard Spurs sadly, we have always been a charity organisation for relegation threatened clubs......... playing awful football? struggling in the relegation zone?..... need a major confidence boost?........then come along to White Hart Lane and have 3 points courtesy of Tottenham Hotspur.

Yeah, mostly agreed. As i've said before, for too long now the perception has been "get stuck into Spurs and they'll roll over"

I now accept that we have a very average team. But, the least we can do is fight. Let the f**ers know that they've been in a game. I just cannot accept this soft underbelly we always seem to have.

 

[SpursDisciple]

I see a vote from a poster called Spurdog, although he has never actually posted. It could all kick off when Spurcat finds out!

 

[remembercolinlee]

Sorry, I was thinking that it was 9 matches, which is basically a quarter of the season. As I said and as Junction said, it was also because of the results at the end of the previous season. When you're rock bottom after 8 games of the season then you're in trouble, wait much longer for it to turn around and you're risking an awful lot.

I don't disagree with Jol's sacking being badly handled, or him being incorrectly blamed for much of what was wrong with the club at the time. However, the signs were the club was going in the wrong direction at the time and all the voices at board level were putting the blame on Jol(a lot of the fans were too, I recall). It was Jol or Comolli and Levy sided with the latter.

Even if you take Jol and Ramos' sackings as being the reason for the team's performance that season, Pochettino could lose the next league games and have far more points than Ramos did when he was sacked and if he took 1 point from the next 5 he'd have more than Jol. Will Levy sack Pochettino if we lose our next 5 league games? Well on past evidence you'd have to say it's a strong possibility and he'd deserve it too because it would be a terrible start, we're along way from that though.

The reasons I don't think it's discussion worthy is because it's a hypothetical based on a worst possible outcome and an extreme one at that. There's not a manager in the league that wouldn't be under pressure after 9 games without a win, regardless who the chairman is. It's a reaction of negativity to look at our next 5 games and think we'll go without a win. City are 4 without a win too and I bet their fans aren't speculating about worst case scenarios and their expectations are much higher than ours. If we put half the energy that we waste doom mongering into getting behind the team we might actually have a good atmosphere at the stadium, no one's quicker to knock Spurs down than our own fans and that to me is sad.

I honestly aint knocking the manager ... I am becoming irritated by how the club is run. I have no idea why we employ a manager and tell him to make do with players who do not fit his style of football. I fear that if we fail in our next 3 league games and 1 of our 2 cup games that levy may well panic.
I am lucky enough to have tickets to both cup games with my daughters and am really looking forward to going. I dont feel pessimistic about our medium to long term future IF levy actually gives the manager he chose the time and players he requires.

Re fans...talking on here is not the same as getting on the sides back...we have an really unfair reputation which you are falling in with.

When we kept losing under ramos we were found to be the noisiest fans after stoke (then newly promoted).
When we had bad runs under jol we did not turn against him...we constantly sang in support of him
The same was true with avb...it took until that 6 nil v city for the fans to get pissed off.
FFS we still still cheer soldado... and he has only scored 1 goal since feb!

Arsenal fans have lashed out constantly (eboue, ramsey, bendtner etc. have all been targets), as did pool fans under hodgson, chelsea fans under avb, qpr fans under hughes, west ham fans, toon fans both under a few managers etc. etc. yet we are the 'fickle' fans.

Any how my post was about what we think of levys possible reaction to a bad run

 

[No Kane No Gain]

I honestly aint knocking the manager ... I am becoming irritated by how the club is run. I have no idea why we employ a manager and tell him to make do with players who do not fit his style of football. I fear that if we fail in our next 3 league games and 1 of our 2 cup games that levy may well panic.
I am lucky enough to have tickets to both cup games with my daughters and am really looking forward to going. I dont feel pessimistic about our medium to long term future IF levy actually gives the manager he chose the time and players he requires.

Re fans...talking on here is not the same as getting on the sides back...we have an really unfair reputation which you are falling in with.

When we kept losing under ramos we were found to be the noisiest fans after stoke (then newly promoted).
When we had bad runs under jol we did not turn against him...we constantly sang in support of him
The same was true with avb...it took until that 6 nil v city for the fans to get pissed off.
FFS we still still cheer soldado... and he has only scored 1 goal since feb!

Arsenal fans have lashed out constantly (eboue, ramsey, bendtner etc. have all been targets), as did pool fans under hodgson, chelsea fans under avb, qpr fans under hughes, west ham fans, toon fans both under a few managers etc. etc. yet we are the 'fickle' fans.

Any how my post was about what we think of levys possible reaction to a bad run

I think you're drawing too many conclusions from the early games. I do agree that the loss and draw against WBA and Sunderland are really frustrating blows with the games we have coming up it's to be expected that it's not all plain sailing early on. We're fortunate that our poor start has been matched by Liverpool, Everton, United and Arsenal(to an extent).

There's plenty for us to worry about with these games in the performance of our defence, which still looks shaky and the players rather worryingly reverting back to AVB's style against West Brom(more an echo of their previous training than Pochettino's plan, I think). There are also positives though, in the 2 games we've started fast we've played really well(QPR and Sunderland) and in all but our last game I felt we created a good amount of chances. It might seem like grasping at straws but it's at least interesting to note that Pochettino's first 3 wins in the Premier League came against City, Chelsea and Liverpool. Put those results aside and it was a really bad start for him at Southampton.

I wasn't picking on our fans and I didn't mean to suggest that we're fickle, we all love Tottenham Hotspur, what I meant is that we do overreact to losses. I agree that it's the same at Arsenal and several other clubs where it always feels like the fans are a bad result away from utter despair. You know what I'm like I'm optimistic about all things Spurs and I've defended our fans regularly before but in the last 4 years there's always been high targets(like there should be) and the moment something happens that wasn't in the script it quickly turns to out of proportion gloom and worrying. I'm just a bit tired of it, for me it sucks the fun out of being a fan. I reallly thought we were going to be different this season, we didn't seem to expect much, people were prepared to give the team time and here we are 5 games in laying the finger of blame on different people at the club and discussing the manager's future.