I wouldn't say NO legacy tractorbhoy just not as much as there could be, the games have certainly inspired people!! Have to say I generally agree with what you say about politicians but at the same time I do respect that they're doing a job which involves an unbelievable amount of pressure something which would warrant a much higher salary, generally because they want to be a public servant for this country, to help people. Which reminds me of something I read, apparently Gordon Brown was left fuming after someone asked David Cameron why he wanted to be PM and he responded "Because I think I would be good at it!!" That for me is another reason with whats wrong with politics today, there aren't enough politicians there with fire in their belly who've experienced a bit of the world then decided they want to go into politics, it's almost as if many MPs particularly the Camerons, Osbornes and Milibands are groomed from the day they were born to be politicians. I'm of the opinion that you need something to spark that!!
I wish we had Mrs T back in her prime All the political classes these days are just mere pygmies without a shred of conviction. On seperate issue I notice that No BBC staff involved in the recent fiasco over Saville or McAlpine have been sacked! Just goes to show that when you work in the public sector no matter how much you **** up you've got a job for life! If any of us in the private sector had ****ed up on this scale we would be collecting our P45's without a seconds hesitation! The Lib Dem David Laws was caught bang to rights in fiddling his expenses while serving as a government minister. Low and behold he is now back in Government after only 18 months away! If any of us had basically stolen cash through fraud we would be facing a jail sentence! Yet politicians just seem to get away with it and then wonder why the public despise them!
PTC, for me Tony Blair was the start of the downward spiral in Politics. It was probably just a sign of the times but he started the trend whereby they tried to be seen with the fashionable people and for me it seemed like he was trying to make it akin to being a footballer/ pop star. It was very 'join me and my cool friends and hang out with the stars' under 'cool britannia' There wasnt a day go by without a newspaper story of the gallaghers/ beckham/models and the current 'en vogue' star leaving after an evening partying at number 10. Im not saying you cant have 'glam' friends but it appeared to be more style over substance and still is. When asked a question, for example - favourite musician - they will all give their honest answer than add 'but Im also into....' death metal/ acid house/ n dubs the spice girls or whatever ****e is currently the fashionable thing to say. Its false, its a ****ty way of saying 'trust me, im one of you now vote for me - i know your way of thinking' They are all to worried about their careers to give their honest opinion. JWM's wish for another Mrs T is probably what is actually needed. Whether the new person has her views or the polar opposite you need someone to come along and say 'I dont care if its popular, I dont care if Im hated but Im doing what I believe this country needs and not what voters want to hear to keep me in my position for the next 10 years' Have to also agree on JWM with the FRAUD (not fiddling) situation and the way its just so easy to be a criminal in a suit and get away with pretty much everything. Morals have disappeared and as long as people can get close to power or money or a certain lifestyle then it appears that everyone will look past their shadier side.
Yes certainly Blair got to close to the press and did care about image. That was partly down to him and I geuss also systematic of the times but he certainly was a visionary, I believe he may well still be in power today had he not stepped down (it would've been a close call). Every political leader since has tried to replicate him, especially Cameron but hasn't done it with conviction as I said he is too entrenched in the traditional Tory party. There were many things I disagreed with Blair about but he certainly was a good leader and I liked how he generally thought pragmatically rather than ideologically, still listening to him he speaks very well and is generally right even if he does come accross as a bit of a slimeball!! I geuss Blair is actually very similar to Thatcher, but Blair had a social conscience!! Both moved their parties away from their traditional mindset both completely capitalist!! The only MP I've seen with the conviction of Thatcher and Blair of recent years is David Miliband, the unions well and truely mucked it up for Labour there, I still believe Labour will win the next election but not with a majority but if D Miliband was leader I'd imagine it would be a quite comfortable majority!! I also agree with the Fraud stuff, how anyone in such a position can think they can get away with it, especially with the press like they are is ridiculous!! Even this week we've seen it with the Labour MP!! I also like how Cameron constantly goes on about transparancy but when asked by the Levinson enquiry to 'voluntarily' produce emails between him and Rebecca Brooks, he asked if it was voluntary to which it was replied yes, so he didn't bother!! Perhaps we need an independant parliament regulatary system underpined by statutory law?? What I would say however is I'm reluctant to say politics has gone downhill in recent years, I'd imagine it's just because we are now more aware of it than in previous generations, there's been corruption in politics for years!!
Mrs T had many qualites, she certainly had conviction and Leadership and some of her policy were actually decent, but by god she went too far and she had a lack of a social conscience!! I actually think the mess we are in all started from the Thatcher era, from the culture of making the quick buck, something which New Labour continued!!
Bloody hell.... I just checked in to see how my post was going and its taken me an hour to trawl through a political debate!! I'm not going to add anything as my opinions have already been aired and I'm simply disillusioned with our political system & parties.. As for the original topic.. elite sport is expensive.. staff and transport costs alone rack up millions and my frustration is that there was an 11% increase across all sports yet 'new' and 'minority' sports (especially those who hit their set targets) have been axed and left in the wilderness.. I personally see it as a massive 'own goal' as the sports like Handball, basketball, volleyball HAVE captured imaginations and exposed our young generation to a wider variety of exciting activities and just 6 years after the creation of a GB handball programme we've all but abandoned it.... how can that show any legacy.. if its not the venues, its our national teams that will be considered 'white elephants'
You have summed up "No nonsense Tory" in a sentence.And that is why you won't see a Tory Government again.Even against the most unpopular PM ever they couldn't get a majority and next time they willget wiped out by bloody Gromitt and his pals aided by that character straight out of a P G Wodehouse novel Farage.The last decent Tory was MacMillan. And I am a businessman.
I agree. Gove is a complete buffoon, and his approval of creationism (sorry, I mean 'intelligent design') supporting schools is just one of his absurd decisions. Re: the Olympic budget - where the hell is the sense in ploughing more money into sports where Britons are already top of the pile or at least competing to a high standard? Surely you should be trying to encourage participation in sports that are underachieving?
You've never had it so good! Mrs T will remain my hero just a shame that these days Tories are too afraid to be Tories!
Mrs Thatcher was not traditional Tory, her policies certainly weren't!! But you saying Tories are afraid to be Tories is what I've said is a problem with British Politics. It's the dilema of doing what the party traditionally stands for which means they probably won't get voted in or moving to the centre ground but not being tradionally Tory/Labour!! But this isn't any good because currently noone is representing the middle man because both are entrenched in their ideologies that they never quite have the conviction to be in the middle ground but they don't appeal to traditional voters because both are with a heavy heart trying to move their party to the central ground. To shake things up their needs to be breakaway groups within either the Labour or Conservative parties to fill the middle ground or new parties to fill either the middle ground or the left and right!! Some would say UKIP are doing this but I don't think so, they are more of a protest party not one with any substance!! BTW it's very refreshing to have a debate on here which hasn't decended into a slanging match!! Very good thread, despite not being football related!!
Looking at this thread just makes me angry to be honest, that there can be people who hide behind these sorts of excuses to make their selfish decisions, and I'm sure they even believe it. What interests me most of all is JWM choosing to sidestep any response to my points, because when it comes down to reasoned argument there really isn't any basis for much of what goes on. Many politicians on both sides of the house forget that they are there to serve the people of the country and serve themselves and those like them instead. Just as another point, I have never seen any shameless propoganda quite like David Cameron's trip to Afghanistan. I have heard nothing more bizarre than Cameron congratulating Tony Blair and the Labour Party on their success in the invasion of the country, that the terrorist threat from that part of the world has been much reduced. Of course, it wasn't put, or portrayed quite like that!
That is quite correct JWM,I never have had it so good.If only things stopped there it would all be fine.I do however find myself in sympathy with others,not a Tory emotion I will agree.Mrs CT is a teacher of some 35 years standing.She leaves for work at 630am every morning and gets back at 6pm every night.At weekends she does marking and lesson prep.During the day she tries to keep kids awake whose parents have allowed them to play computer games until the small hours. I tell her to throw in the towel but she feels some sort of perverse call of duty to pursue this career.I think I will win eventually though because Gove will show his ugly codfeatured mush one time too many and she will snap.Many of her colleagues are struggling with the pay freeze as their bills continue to rise.But as you observe JWM I,personally, have never had it so good.So in true Tory tradition I should say "I'm alright Jack,pull up the ladder"
Now, never a truer word was spoken Cruff's Turn - and I met the old b......ger! I have really enjoyed this political/society discussion board, so well done KPR, and much of our individualism and character has emerged behind our online pennames....and demonstrates admirably why we are all such passionate & enlightened IPTFC supporters! For the record, I shudder to think what Farage and UKIP & Co would do to our country.. I would greatly enjoy meeting you all in pub before a home game - just let me know if ayone is up for it, and we shall organise it in the New Year and I shall happily drive the 200 miles and 1st round on me... Predictions for tmrow? 3-0 and carry on steady climb up to top 10 respectabilty.
I suppose to sum up I would like to know what he thinks kids on the breadline or with parents who aren't in a position to or interested in encouraging sport should do? I actually think there's a case for grammar schools, i think we need a system that looks at every individual kid and encourages them and opens up opportunities. But health, fitness and wellbeing is more important to a lot of peoples' future prospects than Maths and English. Does JWM understand that children cannot choose for themselves? Does he understand that rather than the freedom of choice he is so enthusiastic about what we have instead is marketing departments and supermarkets manipulating the human psyche to sell them bad food and drink? Adults are a different case but we have a responsibility as a nation to give every single kid a chance. Not every kid is driven to achieve what JWM has, actually in my experience a fair proportion of successful people got there because they were prepared to **** on others on the way up - and even if every kid was as bright and able, there is not the capacity for everyone to be successful because you need minions to do the dirty work and work for a pittance. What we can do is make sure that the country is healthy and fit, or at least that kids are to give them an opportunity to carry that on when they're old enough to make their own choices. These are the points I would like an answer to, because up to now they have all been sidestepped. If you agree with the above Mr Tache, there is no shame in just saying 'that's a good point'.
Thatcherite Tories don't actually analyse those points in such detail.They just have a knee jerk feeling that they are right.It's conviction politics that they share with the far left,who they mirror in many respects.
