Thing is though Barcelona do this as their 'wide' players have room to move into the middle as Messi usually drops deep meaning the LW/RW's can run into the space in the middle. With Carroll on our team that space would get congested and our players would be bumping into each other and struggling to get past the defence.
but if you look at the wide system employed by Barcelona - the most crosses are provided by their fullbacks, they're the ones that run the wings -------------------------- Can't argue with that but I do think when you have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta pinging the ball about (and never losing it) it's so much easier for the full backs to get forward without the risk of having to track back when the ball is lost 5 seconds later.
Pires and Ljundberg crossed the ball once each over a 5 year stretch. Ronaldo almost never crossed the ball when he won his 3 titles. Partly because he was rubbish at it. Robben didn't cross the ball, he cut inside as did JCole and Duff for the most part. Barca NEVER cross the ball. Having wide players and width is key. Hoofing the ball sideways every other time you're in possession is something that died in the 90s (although Manu are doing their best to resurrect it). Rightly so, it's a low percentage hopeful ball. Between corners, set pieces and the MAXIMUM 3-4 times a match when a cross is the right option, we'll get plenty of balls to Carroll. More than enough.
No way Suarez is a 'winger'. I understand he can play as a sort of wide forward and cut in, but he never gets to the by line to get a cross in. That then leaves us with 2 players, in the same position, who you've suggested who can actually put a decent ball in (and Johnson get's forward much less from LB if you mean that instead). I'm not sure what a proper team is either, but i do know that when Mereiles swung that cross in against Man City there was only ever going to be one guy heading that into the net and it was AC. You can play pass and move football and still put crosses in, and ignoring the big man's biggest threat would be madness. Pass and move>winger beats fullback>crosses for Carroll- will still be great to watch, it's only Carragher plays ball down middle>Carroll flicks it on that we need to avoid As for people saying Downing is ****e, that just ain't true, and if you've watched any significant amount of Villa this season you will know that.
First and foremost..Suarez is not a winger. What Kenny is trying to do is build an image of the great Liverpool side of the late '80's. Aldo = Carroll Beardsley = Suarez Barnes = ? With that and a strong midfield 3 Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson he has his engine in place. We have possibly the best attacking full back in the league in Johnson. Left back needs sorting, young Robinson will be good cover..But he needs time to develop. People knock Downing, but he'll give you a lot more than Ashley Young would. I personally also like Arda Turan, think he would be a revelation in the premiership.
Can play as a wide forward?? That is his position. Of course he can play there. They had best goals on LFC TV last night and it was practically the 'Suarez out wide' show. Including a great cross to Maxi unmarked to volley in.
He was also sometimes played down the middle, and since we're talking about this fluid attack, i decided not to set his position in stone. As for the players and teams you pointed out, i just don't agree with that. For a start Arsenal were playing with Thierry Henry up front who is notoriously poor in the air,, and even so there are more than 1 examples of Pires putting crosses in. Here is Arjen Robben crossing for Drogba (one of the strikers most comparable to Carroll in terms of power and heading ability) for the winning goal in a cup final. Goal is near the end and you also get to see Terry get the **** kicked out of him and stretchered off: [video=youtube;tALTrOu5-YY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tALTrOu5-YY[/video] As for Barca here's just a few from the little man (including one the in CL final): [video=youtube;_fNgCMR0S4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNgCMR0S4w&feature=related[/video]
Pires and Ljundberg crossed the ball once each over a 5 year stretch. Ronaldo almost never crossed the ball when he won his 3 titles. Partly because he was rubbish at it. Robben didn't cross the ball, he cut inside as did JCole and Duff for the most part. Barca NEVER cross the ball. ---------------------------------- Yeah but in fairness Beckham, Giggs, Kanchelskis, Malouda...those types of players have all won league titles as well and they can whip a decent ball in. It doesnt bother me whether or not these balls come from wingers or wing backs but it surely still has to be an option within our squad to play with wide men and stretch teams...unless we are planning on bringing messi in
I have no problem with a cross when it's the right ball. A few times a match you'll outnumber opposition on the counter, spot an unmarked man ghosting in at the far post (Suarez to Maxi comes to mind), or very late in a match when you need a goal. But the attitude seems to be people want a dedicated crossing machine who's job is stay wide and cross when he gets it. I hate that kind of football and I think we have better players than that.
What we need is an outlet to put pressure on the opposition fullbacks and ease the pressure on our own central midfield.The best we have had recently was Albert Reira and that was in the 2008/2009 season.However I still feel the key to this is also having a deep lying play-maker.This is moreso for away games.
And in all those Messi goals but the last one, the final ball comes from well inside the box, not from out wide.
But Barcelona do actually have wingers.They however don't tend to use them much.They have Ibrahim Affeley and Jeffren Suarez.
I agree KPR. Pedro also often stayed wide on the touchline against Man Utd in the CL Final this year in order to stretch them, especially in the first half. Barca have the option, it's just that when their centre midfield is so good at keeping the ball and then threading it through, they can afford to have their wide players running between the fullback and centreback more often. Doesn't mean they don't use wide players. I don't see why we would want to completely mimic Barca when they are such a unique team in terms of ability. Also most of our key attacking players are not like theirs. Gerrard, Carroll in particular are much different from the Barca mould, and Suarez is perhaps the only one comparable, so why try and shoe horn them into a faux-Barca style instead of going our own way? Valencia is a classic example of a no frills winger who continually stretches teams and will provide an outlet all game, and he wasn't the reason Utd got beat by Barca, it was the fact their centre midfields are barely playing the same sport.
Not just being argumentative, but I find Valencia to be one of the most tedious, monotonous, one-dimensional players in the league. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Kick it down the line, run fast, look frustrated that he can't beat a fullback and his passing is limited, so cross somewhere near some Manu players. Then it works once every 3-4 matches or so and someone actually wins the header and beats the keeper. It's horrible numbers based football. I wasn't say play like Barca, we can't and shouldn't do that. I was saying don't try to look like Valencia at Manu. Tedious sideways hoofball. Cross to Carroll if he's unmarked or single marked in a bit of space like Raul did v Citeh. If all Carroll has to do is beat one man in the air it's the PERFECT time to cross the ball. But that's opportunistic, not the main tactic.
Yeah, in the Braga match especially we just kept clipping diagonal balls at him when 1. He was on the edge of the box and 2. All of their defenders were around him. The best he can do is head it down for someone in that instance. We need to be more intelligent and impulsive with it. Not just do it every time you get the ball.
Can do the same for anything though. Xavi: Look for pass through middle, not on, pass to Iniesta, get it back from Iniesta, look for pass through middle Obviously just going to have to agree to disagree, but i don't find wingers tedious at all and would be very happy with a 1/3 direct assist rate, that'll probably be enough extra goals to get us from 6th to top 4. Valencia is maybe a little too 1 dimensional for my liking but he's still extremely effective. I've never said this will be our main tactic, but I'd much rather we have a winger taking his man on and swinging in for Carroll to grab top scorer rather than looking to play more down the middle and make our record signing and USP ineffective. Not saying the moment a player gets the ball they have to get a cross in, just that having a winger would balance the team and give us a different, and my opinion potentially really effective, threat to what we have now
