LEAVE OR REMAIN

[afcftw]

If I was in government right now I'd be looking to negotiate access to the common market upon our exit even if it means some level of compromise. The euro has dropped in value as well as the pound, the European economy is fragile, the ECB has already used radical fiscal policy to try and stop deflation, it is in everyone's best interest to minimise uncertainty and get an economic deal in place. The EU will want it to appear to be difficult for us which is why they will insist on some level of compromise which may well be movement of labour/people, but they will also want a deal to be done and quickly.

At the same time I would be putting together a team to begin negotiations outside of Europe on FTAs immediately with the common wealth and other emerging markets around the world.

I would announce new wealth creation such as legalising cannabis, resulting in creating an injection of investment into a new industry and loosen rules on advertisement for things like cigarettes to create new tax revenues. We need to appear to be pushing forward and making money. At the same time I would announce new investment within industry from the government that wouldn't have been allowed under the EU such as in the steel industry.

Quietly behind the scenes I would be encouraging other eurosceptic countries to hold off on a refer drum u til we had done a deal with the EU and then offer our support to help them pull out whilst offering them new trade deals with. Ourselves or within a new European economic area.

We need to be bold, we need to appear strong, we need to create wealth and we need to move forward with a global profile. I really hope Cameron is strong enough to hold onto his job (not that I'm a Cameron supporter) and create stability and then I hope a government has the strength to really make a difference and help create a new world. There are going to be short term hardships but we have the opportunity to do something special.

 

[ImpSaint]

You keep banging on about fighting for jobs. You don't seem to have grasped the impact this vote is about to have on an already precarious economy. Those long hours with low pay you talk about aren't about to be replaced by secure well paid jobs with decent conditions. Where will those jobs come from? You just voted to **** the economy.

They weren't secure well paid jobs with decent conditions when we were doing them. They still aren't and they are now paid less. No-one is thinking jobs will appear out of nowhere but jobs are created and filled by agencies abroad. Those jobs will now become available to British workers and they will still be low paid and will still be crap conditions but many British people will be overjoyed to now (or in a couple of years) be able to get them.

This isn't some dream of perfection and getting great jobs. This is about being able to get a job with a whole week hours at NMW and knowing you are there every week. The rest of you above that do not seem to understand how basic this wish is. They just want a job. Any crap job on crap wages. This is not about some golden celebration of amazing jobs for people. In recession the food sector doesn't lose that any jobs. In recession people still buy food. Those are the jobs that were lost to us and those are the jobs we will do again.

Some people really do not understand or believe what has been happening and think it is all repetition of bigoted people by bigoted people. It is all truth, all experience and you can see just how lost for choice people felt.

 

[Beef]

At least if we lose our jobs the Job Centres will be hiring..

 

[ImpSaint]

But the primary reason for the cull of jobs is not the EU. It's the austerity program followed by the current governing party which led to economic contraction. And economic contraction, like the one you're very likely to see as a result of departing the EU, is the thing that harms those people with no skills doing hard work, not immigrants.

It has nothing to do with austerity. This started way before the crash. This started in 2004 and turned 99% British factories into 10% British factories within 2 years. By 2006 the initial cull had been done, The crash wasn't until late 2007. This had nothing to do with austerity. That came years later.

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

Feeling disappointed, let down and saddened this morning.

The younger generations who've continually been denied opportunities to own property, enter an engaging and empowering job market, have access to affordable education and have an era of prosperity have been denied once again by older generations who enjoyed all the prosperity of the boom.

After the rhetoric of 'think of your children', it appears that those who voted leave have ignored the will of those younger than 40.

It's easy to point the finger at Europe, or the unknown, be it immigrants or political bodies, but ultimately, it's the British government that's repeatedly failed recent generations.

But, democracy is democracy and you can't only accept the outcome of democracy when it favours your desired result.

I won't call a fix, or rigging, or any of the sort of daft conspiracy theories that were floated.

So, while I have zero faith in the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and others to be on the front line of British politics in a crucial period of our history, it's important that we unite our country and avoid veering off to the right and becoming a spiteful little country led by those with 'little Englander' attitudes.

If there is to be an England and Wales in union from here on in (assuming a Scottish independence vote and potential reunification of Ireland and Northern Ireland) at least let it be one that strives to be progressive and united.

Hopefully there can be a consensus and the country can come together to start to stop the backwards slide as quickly as possible and put the wheels into motion post-Brexit.

Whether or not that happens, in my eyes it will be a shame to see the end of our now rather ironically-named 'United Kingdom' in what was a massive political gamble after years of arrogant and ignorant cross-party head burying.

That's about all, I'm off to bed.

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[AL.]

Feeling disappointed, let down and saddened this morning.

The younger generations who've continually been denied opportunities to own property, enter an engaging and empowering job market, have access to affordable education and have an era of prosperity have been denied once again by older generations who enjoyed all the prosperity of the boom.

After the rhetoric of 'think of your children', it appears that those who voted leave have ignored the will of those younger than 40.

It's easy to point the finger at Europe, or the unknown, be it immigrants or political bodies, but ultimately, it's the British government that's repeatedly failed recent generations.

But, democracy is democracy and you can't only accept the outcome of democracy when it favours your desired result.

I won't call a fix, or rigging, or any of the sort of daft conspiracy theories that were floated.

So, while I have zero faith in the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and others to be on the front line of British politics in a crucial period of our history, it's important that we unite our country and avoid veering off to the right and becoming a spiteful little country led by those with 'little Englander' attitudes.

If there is to be an England and Wales in union from here on in (assuming a Scottish independence vote and potential reunification of Ireland and Northern Ireland) at least let it be one that strives to be progressive and united.

Hopefully there can be a consensus and the country can come together to start to stop the backwards slide as quickly as possible and put the wheels into motion post-Brexit.

Whether or not that happens, in my eyes it will be a shame to see the end of our now rather ironically-named 'United Kingdom' in what was a massive political gamble after years of arrogant and ignorant cross-party head burying.

That's about all, I'm off to bed.

You must log in or register to see images

Perfectly put DTLW. Perfectly put.

 

[ImpSaint]

years of arrogant and ignorant cross-party head burying.

It's easy to point the finger at Europe, or the unknown, be it immigrants or political bodies, but ultimately, it's the British government that's repeatedly failed recent generations.

And that is what I have been trying to say. They did not listen. 3 different prime ministers did not listen.

 

[afcftw]

Feeling disappointed, let down and saddened this morning.

The younger generations who've continually been denied opportunities to own property, enter an engaging and empowering job market, have access to affordable education and have an era of prosperity have been denied once again by older generations who enjoyed all the prosperity of the boom.

After the rhetoric of 'think of your children', it appears that those who voted leave have ignored the will of those younger than 40.

It's easy to point the finger at Europe, or the unknown, be it immigrants or political bodies, but ultimately, it's the British government that's repeatedly failed recent generations.

But, democracy is democracy and you can't only accept the outcome of democracy when it favours your desired result.

I won't call a fix, or rigging, or any of the sort of daft conspiracy theories that were floated.

So, while I have zero faith in the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and others to be on the front line of British politics in a crucial period of our history, it's important that we unite our country and avoid veering off to the right and becoming a spiteful little country led by those with 'little Englander' attitudes.

If there is to be an England and Wales in union from here on in (assuming a Scottish independence vote and potential reunification of Ireland and Northern Ireland) at least let it be one that strives to be progressive and united.

Hopefully there can be a consensus and the country can come together to start to stop the backwards slide as quickly as possible and put the wheels into motion post-Brexit.

Whether or not that happens, in my eyes it will be a shame to see the end of our now rather ironically-named 'United Kingdom' in what was a massive political gamble after years of arrogant and ignorant cross-party head burying.

That's about all, I'm off to bed.

You must log in or register to see images

I'm in my mid 20s, I bought a property in London at 21, I run my own business, I had access to a good education and voted to leave the EU. There are opportunities for the youth of today, despite the best efforts of successive governments to **** us over, short term there will be difficulty, long term we have to see this as an opportunity and as young people shape our future and make the most of the situation in front of us.

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

I'm in my mid 20s, I bought a property in London at 21, I run my own business, I had access to a good education and voted to leave the EU. There are opportunities for the youth of today, despite the best efforts of successive governments to **** us over, short term there will be difficulty, long term we have to see this as an opportunity and as young people shape our future and make the most of the situation in front of us.

I suspect you're very much in the minority of being able to buy London property at the age of 21.

 

[Schad]

It has nothing to do with austerity. This started way before the crash. This started in 2004 and turned 99% British factories into 10% British factories within 2 years. By 2006 the initial cull had been done, The crash wasn't until late 2007. This had nothing to do with austerity. That came years later.

Well, you will now get a lot of situations where the factory will be 0% British, owing to be 0% open.

And again: these are not problems found solely in the UK, nor are they problems found throughout the EU. Canada has a very restrictive immigration policy (far too restrictive, IMO) based upon the same sort of things you want...skill-based, points system, all that good stuff. Our real wage growth over the past thirty years is dismal; as is that in the US. Until 2008, when real wage growth ended up substantially underwater in the UK thanks to multiple rounds of austerity and economic stagnation, we were behind you over the past three decades. Those are problems caused by government policy, and so long as government policy does not change, the problems will subsist...except, if the UK and Europe are both significantly weakened, they will be far worse.

 

[Shepherd's Clearing]

I would announce new wealth creation such as legalising cannabis, resulting in creating an injection of investment into a new industry and loosen rules on advertisement for things like cigarettes to create new tax revenues. We need to appear to be pushing forward and making money.

I know it's probably a bit PC [an expression which means nothing to me] to say this but having a fit, healthy, workforce is very important to any countries economy. Encouraging youngsters to smoke through advertising, an unfettered industry would target this demographic aggressively, is short-sighted.

Furthermore now Scotland and Northern Ireland have a valid reason to say we want independence to my mind means you are definitely on sketchy ground saying 'no you can't' after the winning side of this referendum has bleated so much about that same topic.

Dodgy times ahead methinks.....

 

[afcftw]

I suspect you're very much in the minority of being able to buy London property at the age of 21.

I benefited from being at that age not long after the economic crash before property prices had started to recover properly. Between 2009-2011/12 there were fantastic opportunities for young first time buyers who had saved a deposit (I worked two jobs, 7 days a week to save mine). However since then I know of multiple people who in there mid twenties have taken there first steps onto the property ladder, either through government schemes, buying as couples, or moving slightly further out from London.

It isn't easy, opportunities aren't everywhere, but hard work and the right attitude go a long way to getting somewhere as a young person in this difficult climate.

 

[ImpSaint]

Well, you will now get a lot of situations where the factory will be 0% British, owing to be 0% open.

Food factories do not struggle much in recessions. People still buy food.

And again: these are not problems found solely in the UK, nor are they problems found throughout the EU. Canada has a very restrictive immigration policy (far too restrictive, IMO) based upon the same sort of things you want...skill-based, points system, all that good stuff. Our real wage growth over the past thirty years is dismal; as is that in the US. Until 2008, when real wage growth ended up substantially underwater in the UK thanks to multiple rounds of austerity and economic stagnation, we were behind you over the past three decades. Those are problems caused by government policy, and so long as government policy does not change, the problems will subsist...except, if the UK and Europe are both significantly weakened, they will be far worse.

UK wage growth was not helped between 2006 and 2013 as the employers in a lot of the factories reduced the wage down year by year to the NMW. These jobs were previously above NMW. The NMW was a disaster for a lot of people in Britain because not many people were earning below it. In real terms these jobs have decreased in pay from 2004 to now.

 

[TheSecondStain]

OK folks, back to your politics thread.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I just can't believe what I've woken up to this morning. A sad, sad, day for the UK and for our brothers and sisters in the other nations in the EU. What on earth have we done?

 

[Beddy]

A lot of people on here have never experienced life outside of the EU.
While I accept it is going to be a bumpy ride for a while I am confident it was the right decision for our children. I can understand the uncertainty and the worry of the younger generation. Give it time and it will work to their advantage in the long term.
Again in truth no one can predict what is to happen in the future. Arguing who is right who is wrong isn't going to get us anywhere either. What we have to do now is to pull together and make the new direction we are about to embark on work.
We are all going to have to be patient and just get on with it.

 

[TheSecondStain]

This vote achieved nothing but disruption. Within 6 months to a year the odd couple of percent will realise what they've done. The country is absolutely split down the middle. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, so they'll successfully vote to leave the UK and get back into the EU.
Sadly, it's the selfish baby boomers who have pretty much buggered it for their children. Those peace loving, liberal minded 1960's babies have turned into little Englanders.

Now where's that map of France.?

 

[Beddy]

Isn't it strange how history repeats itself.........young people were saying exactly the same as you have tss when we actually went into the common market which was not the 60's baby boomers. If they had kept to the original way which was for inter trade only we would not be having this conversation.........