Learning from mistakes and ambition

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Spurm

Spurm

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2011
9,417
684
113
London
As much as I think Levy has done a great job I think there is a distinct lack of ambition being shown and past mistakes are not being learned from.
When we qualified for the CL we had a great opportunity to strengthen, we didn't.
That January we were still in the CL and marginally behind in the race for 4th, we could have shown ambition to requalify, we didn't.
Last January we were in a great position. Harry wanted new faces. We could have consolidated. We didn't, others did and Harry got his head turned.
In the summer we basically sold.
This season, like last, we are in a good position. We should have strengthened as others have. There are major holes in the squad that will hit us when the injuries increase in the latter stages. I really fear we are looking at 6th now. Liverpool addressed their weaknesses in this window, it would be a major embarrassment to finish below them this season.

Holtby looks like a good buy, but it should have been in addition to strengthening in other areas (mainly striker). I can only hope he can hit the ground running and has 10 goals in him before the end of the season, as that is what we need.

One 'word' sums it all up for me - FFS
 
So negative.

We are currently fourth and is there any guarantees that everyone else's new signing are going to be improvements.

It is rare that quality players are brought in Janauary and for every decent January signing there is 10 bad ones.

As for injuries increasing towards the end of the season, we haven't had a fully fit squad all season and it hasn't affected us too much.

4th spot will still be close and it will still be between us and Arsenal.
 
I have tried to stay positive but the lack of ambition shown over numerous windows has broken me. Like someone else said, I can see bale going in the summer and we'll prob use at most half the fee to strengthen
 
In previous transfer windows there's been the Harry excuse and that he wasn't the man for levy, so we tried to do it without spending much. - fair enough.
A new man has come in, and yes, it would have been wrong to take a "gung ho" approach at the start by spending millions, but he's had long enough now and has proven he can do the job. - he needed backing in Jan. We all know that Jan isn't the window for it, but unfortunately our situation was desperate.
Defoe isn't scoring and is carrying an injury. Ade has done nothing and 20/41 of our prem goals have come from Bale and Defoe. - The latter player's goals drying up in recent months. what if bale gets injured? not only is he a vital asset in terms of his work rate, but he's scoring a lot of goals for a midfielder. - we shouldn't be relying on a midfielder like that.
We have a scoring problem that needed addressing and we did NOTHING. There's no room for mistakes at the business end of the season and we've made similar mistakes in the past and not learned from them.
Totally agree about Liverpool. They are currently 7th in the league and have a world class striker in Luis Suarez and sturridge is as good as we've got. They knew their problems and they dealt with them. Liverpool have looked like a different team recently.
We've been battling for 4th for 4 seasons in a row now, but we're not doing anything to push on and make the difference.
Jan is a nightmare month, but everyone knows that's the case. you can't wait until deadline day, unless you know you're going to deliver. We've had so many opportunities with Damiao now and we knew what the situation was. where was the back up plan?

Louis Saha was released from his contract yesterday. So I'm guessing we could sign him? If that's possible, then we need to do so. we could be in a right predicament otherwise.
 
You must be bonkers to think Levy is doing a good job.
No ambition , No money, Bargain basement buys , Enic in control, hand me the rope.
I wish AVB all the luck in the world , as his hands will be constantly tied.
 
Levy has done a good job moving us from mid-table to top 5/6 and also providing stability, but he hasn't moved on from that. He talks big stadium, trophies and CL but the actions haven't backed that up
 
We needed at least one new striker. A marque striker would have been great, but (as others have said) getting good deals in January is the exception rather than the rule, and I'm not so as unrealistic as to have believed that Levy would spend the £20 million + to get in a player worth only half of that. However, we need at least one striker, nonetheless, even if that meant looking at the next tier of strikers and getting in a bench-warmer for Defoe/Ade.

We haven't, and it may cost us.
 
I have a very much 'love/hate' view of Levy. I love him when he squeezes every last million out of an outgoing transfer, gets us good players on the cheap out of the blue, and for running us in the right way. But at the same time when you lose out on a player WHO WE DESPERATELY NEED more than anything else, and have done for years, it is horrendously frustrating. For the sake of, say, £2 million we've missed out on Damiao, a player who would have been a huge statement of intent and may well have been the striker we've been crying out for for years. We've had a month to look at the likes of Negredo, Lopez and Gomis yet we only seem to be looking at them in the last few days, even hours, of the window. It's just ridiculous, and I think there's a perfectly fair argument that, like Harry, Levy has taken us as far as he can and it could well be time for a change. The money is there as shown by the Moutinho bid in the summer, we just need someone who will occasionally spend that extra cash, as opposed to missing out on potentially key players again and again because we are, in the grand scheme of things given the sums of money involved, penny pinching.
 
The trouble with all these comments is that they rely on information picked up from the media or the internet.

First we don't know that Levy has not been looking for a striker for months, we don't know that the business with Internacional has not been on going for months or that it has been going on at all. Lists of players we were in for have once again not materialised but again we don't know that we were ever going after them. Most of it is just bullshit made up to keep the myth of the excitement of transfer window alive and selling.

On the other hand we do know that we are 4th after half a season, so we have competed pretty well and there is no great reason to think we can't do the same in the second half of this season. Let us see how the Holtby transfer pans out, it could be that it will be enough to make a significant difference in the coming weeks.

If you allow yourself to be hyped up by the window bullshit it's not surprising you will feel down when the reality kicks in. It's hardly Levy's fault is it.
 
There's no doubting how much Levy has done for us. He's got a new stadium underway, a world class training complex and we've gradually got better and better over the years and cemented ourselves in the top 1/4 of the premier league table.
you all see me go on and on about needing the marquee striker to "compete with those around us", but that's me speaking in an ideal situation. It's difficult for us as we can't take that risk at the moment, without the larger revenues from the new stadium. It is what we need, but it's not what we can have unfortunately.

But what's beginning to annoy me is the way Levy conducts his business, like some action blockbuster movie at the end of each window. it's like the 2 days become "The Levy show". Roll up... Roll up... - coming to a Sky Sports News screen near you!
We can't get the big names as we won't spend the money. So lets just forget about it until we can. We are starting to smack of desperation at the end of these windows and other clubs aren't having it anymore. They are getting the better of Levy. (or the interest is all a hoax. one or the other but that's a different conversation altogether)
anyway... what I'm trying to get at, is why aren't we unearthing these 8-13mill gems from Belgium or holland for example? SOS made this point about youngsters for the academy. But we should also be having a look players who are about 23 or so and could be ready for the premiership

The Luuk De Jongs, Van Volfswinkels, etc etc.

Players like Ba, Benteke etc etc have lit up the premiership. - I know there's as just many that haven't been great, but we don't have a lot of choice if we're not going to spend the "marquee" money. This might sound like i'm contradicting myself based on previous comments I've made, but I know what I'm trying to say. A youngster from Ajax for example, is a lot more appealing to me than someone scoring in the SPL. I guess there's just a fine line between finding better than we've got, and the price of a top quality striker. - But those quality youngster are out there, just like holtby. we just need to get a **** load better at it.

an example was yesterday. Diame. 3.5m release clause. We only have Parker as a quality defensive midfielder. That transfer had levy all over it. Parker isn't getting any younger and Hudd and livermore aren't up to scratch. A bid at the death (to switch across london like dempsey in the summer) would have been very clever and very do-able. we can't miss opportunities like that. Even if we didn't need him or he didn't work out... we could sell him on for at least double that!
 
Fair enough Spurf but ignoring any rumours we still have these facts:

1 - we need a striker
2 - we have needed a striker for some time
3 - the funds have been available thanks to CL revenue, player sales and a healthy business model
4 - we have not signed a striker
5 - other clubs have signed strikers, showing that said strikers are available

Something is screwy with our setup. The following players would improve our team/squad (IMO) and have all moved in the time we needed a striker. Just including players we would have had a chance of signing (eg, no rvp or £30m players):
* Ba, twice moved.
* Suarez.
* Papiss Cisse
* Sturridge
* Lukaku (loan)
* Long
* Berbatov
* Podolski
* Giroud
* Michu
* Graham
* Rodallega
* Benteke

Thats just from the top of my head.

Quite a few have moved to, no disrespect meant, clubs that would be less appealing than Spurs. So we must be missing them or think they aren't good enough (poor scouting) or we are interested an Levy is taking the piss with the bids.
Either way, it needs sorting
 
Spurf said:
The trouble with all these comments is that they rely on information picked up from the media or the internet.

First we don't know that Levy has not been looking for a striker for months, we don't know that the business with Internacional has not been on going for months or that it has been going on at all. Lists of players we were in for have once again not materialised but again we don't know that we were ever going after them. Most of it is just bullshit made up to keep the myth of the excitement of transfer window alive and selling.

On the other hand we do know that we are 4th after half a season, so we have competed pretty well and there is no great reason to think we can't do the same in the second half of this season. Let us see how the Holtby transfer pans out, it could be that it will be enough to make a significant difference in the coming weeks.

If you allow yourself to be hyped up by the window bullshit it's not surprising you will feel down when the reality kicks in. It's hardly Levy's fault is it.
Click to expand...

spurf, very good points on the Media stuff. but forget the 5* players. we're desperately short of goal scorers. where was a loan for someone who can do a job... at the very least? forget money, forget glamour, this is about having a man to do a job.

for me, the same applies to Townsend. only other winger we've got. but we've loaned him out, meaning our back up options change our style of play completely. bizarre.
 
Spurm said:
Fair enough Spurf but ignoring any rumours we still have these facts:

1 - we need a striker
2 - we have needed a striker for some time
3 - the funds have been available thanks to CL revenue, player sales and a healthy business model
4 - we have not signed a striker
5 - other clubs have signed strikers, showing that said strikers are available

Something is screwy with our setup. The following players would improve our team/squad (IMO) and have all moved in the time we needed a striker. Just including players we would have had a chance of signing (eg, no rvp or £30m players):
* Ba, twice moved.
* Suarez.
* Papiss Cisse
* Sturridge
* Lukaku (loan)
* Long
* Berbatov
* Podolski
* Giroud
* Michu
* Graham
* Rodallega
* Benteke

Thats just from the top of my head.

Quite a few have moved to, no disrespect meant, clubs that would be less appealing than Spurs. So we must be missing them or think they aren't good enough (poor scouting) or we are interested an Levy is taking the piss with the bids.
Either way, it needs sorting
Click to expand...

spurm, you've summed up what i was trying to say, but just much better. <applause> <ok>
 
Roo:But what's beginning to annoy me is the way Levy conducts his business, like some action blockbuster movie at the end of each window. it's like the 2 days become "The Levy show". Roll up... Roll up... - coming to a Sky Sports News screen near you!
Click to expand...

Our transfer took place early in the window and Holtby was secured early on, only the decision to pay the extra and get him now was taken late and that for understandable reasons. I can't believe that Levy would chose to put himself through the deadline drama unless events forced it. There are other parties involved in theses deals.

The only 'show' is the one you describe Roll up Roll up at a Sky screen near you. Yes that's their show written, produced and directed by Sky Sports Inc. Stop falling for it!
 
Obviously I get that a lot of the rumours in the transfer windows are media hype. Everyone knows that. But, as an example, we were clearly in for Damiao with money on the table. Having been after him over the course of several transfer windows we would surely have been aware of any 3rd party ownership issues that might hold the deal up. Why wait until the last minute when we've bid for him in the past a few times. If there had been a bid earlier in the window it would have been reported for sure. And, to be frank, if Levy hasn't been looking at bringing in a new striker over the last few months then he's a fool.

I know myself that a lot of my reaction today is because I'm disappointed that we didn't bring in a striker, but seriously, we damn well needed it. So even if I'm partially reacting to the disappointment that certain speculation hasn't come through for us, I still think that, as fans who pay, we have a right to be pretty annoyed that Levy has consistently not addressed a key issue in our squad when the time and funds have been available to do so. Don't get me wrong I think that apart from the glaring striker issue we have had a decent window. We've bought in Holtby who looks a real prospect, finally got Jenas off our wage bill, as well as loaning out some promising youngsters so they can get regular football. But we needed that striker IMO, and it is a big disappointment that Levy has failed to act. Regardless of transfer window speculation.
 
Spurm said:
Fair enough Spurf but ignoring any rumours we still have these facts:

1 - we need a striker
2 - we have needed a striker for some time
3 - the funds have been available thanks to CL revenue, player sales and a healthy business model
4 - we have not signed a striker
5 - other clubs have signed strikers, showing that said strikers are available

Something is screwy with our setup. The following players would improve our team/squad (IMO) and have all moved in the time we needed a striker. Just including players we would have had a chance of signing (eg, no rvp or £30m players):
* Ba, twice moved.
* Suarez.
* Papiss Cisse
* Sturridge
* Lukaku (loan)
* Long
* Berbatov
* Podolski
* Giroud
* Michu
* Graham
* Rodallega
* Benteke

Thats just from the top of my head.

Quite a few have moved to, no disrespect meant, clubs that would be less appealing than Spurs. So we must be missing them or think they aren't good enough (poor scouting) or we are interested an Levy is taking the piss with the bids.
Either way, it needs sorting
Click to expand...

Spurm you can make a case for a number of those players being handy to have at Spurs but we can only speculate as to why they went elsewhere.

1. We have to know of the player in the first place.
2. We have to decide whether we want him.
3. We have to deal through an agent or sometimes several individuals. (they have their own agenda's)
4. Price has to be agreed
5. Players terms have to be agreed

If all this is happening with more than one team interested it's a complicated affair and you can't do all the deals at once.

Whatever way you look at it we are not just going around with a clear deck selecting our choices from a shelf marked top footballers. There are a few other football teams out there all with the same view in mind but with different priorities and different amounts of cash available. Spurs can't win them all, but in recent seasons we have brought a whole raft of top footballers to the club, so I am not complaining too much.
 
Spurf said:
Our transfer took place early in the window and Holtby was secured early on, only the decision to pay the extra and get him now was taken late and that for understandable reasons. I can't believe that Levy would chose to put himself through the deadline drama unless events forced it. There are other parties involved in theses deals.

The only 'show' is the one you describe Roll up Roll up at a Sky screen near you. Yes that's their show written, produced and directed by Sky Sports Inc. Stop falling for it!
Click to expand...

yes, I'm a sucker for deadline day, but holtby is a bad example, and not one I was referring to. There were obvious reasons for that

How about Lloris, Dempsey and Saha? 3 players who have aided in our reputation of being a "deadline day club". The latter two we've ended up with, due to leaving everything till so late and failing!
 
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