Don't believe for one second that the bar owner is lying, and have no doubt that the Spurs fans were well-behaved. Back in the day (70s - 90s) when large numbers of hooligans from English clubs could afford to travel more widely around Europe, I might have had my doubts. There was a time when English club fans were hated and feared (rightly) throughout the continent. These days, particularly when it comes to Turkey and Italy, it's English fans who need to watch their backs. Quite clearly, these Spurs lot were the victims of a nasty, pre-planned ambush. However, I can't understand why they took the risk of going to The Drunken Ship bar in that Square. It's exactly where 3 'Boro fans were stabbed a few years ago. It should be clear by now that if your club draws Roma in the Champions League the options are these: 1 Avoid the obvious bars and keep a low profile. 2 Go en masse, tooled up, wearing crash helmets, and beat the f******s up 3 Stay at home.
So in your view what happened is that Spurs fans were getting rowdy and drunk and some passing masked up ultras carrying bats, bricks and knives just happened to see them and defended themselves? Several Italian media outlets are carrying quotes from eyewitnesses other than bar staff, I suggest you pick up a copy of tomorrow's paper if you're out there and want to find out what happened It's also funny how you say you can't generalise all Lazio fans but you do the same for how English football fans behave when they're out drinking. If the Tottenham fans were looking for some Ultras to fight they're unlikely to get so outnumbered and without weapons, trying to hide at the back of the bar away from the Lazio fans.
i can't believe some of what i'm reading. The italian bar owner is lying because there is absolutely NO way the English fans weren't tanked up? Do me a favour. I've been to many football matches and never once have i been steaming drunk. Am i the only one? Doubt it. Why would he stick his head above the parapet and speak out against the Ultras when he has to live and no doubt deal with them week in week out. Use your brain.
I am staggered at what you have written here. It comes to something when an Arsenal fan has to stick up for Spurs supporters against another Spurs supporter. No need to set out why you are wrong, others have already done it. I hope on reflection you will withdraw those comments, or at least justify them with some evidence. It is also the pinnacle of free speech for me to say that I loathe and detest DiCanio's views. I am thinking you and I are very different politically!
It is the duty of the local police to protect visitors from these elements. The fans have a right to drink anywhere they want providing they are not causing a nuisance. I say again, can you imagine the uproar if a group of Italian fans were set upon by Brits under the same circumstances?
Yes, I agree. Had this happened in London, there would now be a Europe wide press outcry against "the English football hooligan" Coupled with strong demands that Spurs, if not all English clubs, be banned from European competition. If, as I suspect, UEFA do nothing, then it's a clear case of double standards being applied. Let's hope there's not even more serious trouble tonight.
ive said it before and i was vilified but ill use the same phrase again..but them italians are at it again it seems. same ol italians same ol UEFA
So, every news report, every eye witness and the bar owner (who were there) know less than you (who wasn't there)... when in a hole stop digging mate. A guy is in hospital in a critical condition after being stabbed ... you are effectively blaming him for getting stabbed...not a great suggestion to be making imo Di Canio calls himself a Fascist...He agrees with Facism...He thinks Mussolini was misunderstood... There is NOTHING about Di Canio's views that deserve respect. If he had his beloved Facist state NONE of us would have any kind of rights other than to be slaughtered.
or 4. The club decides to take the financial knock, default the game 3-0 in order to protect the fans. I would applaud any club that did this. My thoughts are with those over in Italy right now, especially those in hospital.
Sounds to me like the Spurs fans were there in the afternoon, and got attacked late at night. Plenty of time for 'thugs' to spot them, go away and plan their attack. You can't tell me a group of masked, tooled up Italians were just wandering around by chance. Would have made no difference if the Spurs lads were pissed or not.
So I'm no longer allowed to question the story. I must treat it as fact. I cannot show any cynicism. Italian's bad. English good. Bar owner tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's all so black and white. All summed up in a 500 word news article. The bar's had trouble before. It has a reputation that no bar owner would want. Of course he's going to play it down. Can you honestly tell me not a single person had one drink too many in a twelve-hour drinking session? To make that assumption would be far worse than my cynicism about the bar owner's sound-bite. I'm happy to discuss eye witness evidence if you are willing to accept that people's memories are not great, and people tend to fill in the gaps, and people will leave out and change information if it's in their interest.
What interest do the Italian press have in accusing their own countrymen of participating in an unprovoked, planned attack? That's the line they're going with. http://roma.corriere.it/roma/notizie/cronaca/12_novembre_22/raid-pub-roma-2112824287876.shtml http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2...laziali_assaltano_un_pub-47159652/?ref=HREA-1 Links in Italian.^
You can't back up anything you say though as there's no evidence for it, just your assumption that because they're English fans they've gotten drunk and started looking for trouble. Frankly given that you also dismissed Di Canio's Nazi salute as wumming I'd question your judgement and impartiality to incidents involving Italians.
I don't get this. The guy has eye witness evidence - the bar owner! Why would he lie?! People's memories?? It was last night FFS,..
There's now a suggestion of an anti-Semitic motive behind the attack. Not sure that I buy that, but I'm sure the Ultras saw it as a bonus.
What does the amount of alcohol consumed have to do with a preplanned attack involving masks and weapons?
I haven't read through this thread, but just wanted to say that it was ****ing disgraceful what happened to your fans in Italy. Nobody should ever have to be subjected to what must have been a terrifying attack, just for supporting their team. Gooner family are standing with you on this. Sorry to hear it happened and shame on those cowards who instigated it.
