Leonardo--neither grumpy nor gluey. A bit repetitive perhaps, but that is only because people keep repeating arguments I have refuted once, but can always be tempted into refuting again (" we have always been a selling club...etc etc"). Malky is not like Rodgers. Brendan hotly denied he was about to leave the club, and wrapped himself in the flag of "integrity" when it was suggested he might be leaving--then he left. So he was vulnerable to the charge of double dealing. But TBH I think we exaggerated his crime at the time, and should certainly have got over it by now. Malky has committed no similar sin; he left for a better job (as we knew he would) at a time convenient for him and inconvenient for us. But he had done the job he was hired for, and was entitled to leave after two good years. He is an ambitious young manager, in a competitive industry where people have to take opportunities as they arise. We would bemoan "lack of ambition" in an owner-- but apparently you decry it in a manager--if he is no longer our manager. I think the bigger problem is that at this moment Watford may not look like very attractive job opportunity to any ambitious young manager . Our well known financial plight and enigmatic owner could be a turn-off, though the Academy set- up and presence of GT are positive factors.Football is a small world. What are insiders saying about what is going on/might happen next at Watford? I would love to know!
I do wish people would stop talking about securing his family's future etc. The frequent comparisons between fans in their jobs and the players/managers whose wages they pay are unhelpful. Imagine, for a moment, that a man on £20k is offered a job on £30k. As so many on football boards say, in justifying the mercenary tendencies of their idols, of course this hypothetical man would wave goodbye and gratefully accept the new job with the pay increase. Thus, these same people argue, how can we criticise a footballer who does the same? Well, the most obvious distinction is that this hypothetical person starts from a much lower base. The difference between £20k and £30k per annum could mean the difference between struggle and comfort. While I recognise that, in principle, a wage increase will always be an attractive proposition, I don't buy for one second that it should be a no-brainer for a footballer in the same way as it will be for the hypothetical person above. Mackay will have amassed an absolute fortune over the years as a footballer, coach and manager and although it's likely that he wants more money (human nature, and all that) there must be scepticism that he requires it. So if people want to defend a player or manager leaving a club for more money, I would prefer that they adopt a more honest approach: less emphasis on protection of family and more mention of the pieces of silver referred to by Lenny. I'm not saying that people don't have a right to seek more and more money, irrespective of their current wealth. I just think that people should recognise mercenaries for what they are and stand up for them accordingly.
Norway - I changed jobs many times - always for more money - but I NEVER did what Malky did - I never accepted a new, better offer from my existing company and walked out 3 months later knowing it would hurt my company - I never did and I never would. It is not about changing jobs - it is about signing a contract and then tearing it up 3 months later knowing the harm you were doing
One_lars I have never seen any evidence that accumulating money makes the desire for more lessen. Quite the reverse. If you are on £20000 you may imagine being on £30000 would be heaven. But when you get there you start looking at people on £50000, and so on. In this world you need an awful lot of money to have security for life, a better than expected living standard, and to know you can look after your kids no matter what And of course a totally separate issue is ambition. Why do multi billionaires work? It isn't the money For my part I'll just thank MM for an interesting ride and many fun days. I wish him well and I'll hope we thrash them home and away. Now onwards and upwards
OLM He did a job ,got a better offer ,different challenge , he is ambitious, take the yellow specs of a sec, career wise would he have more chance of making it to the prem with us or with baadiff? It wouldnt surprise me to see MM take them up ,it also wouldnt surprise me to see him as Scotland manager one day!
Ah - there you have it - he did not do the 3 year job he signed a contract for in March 2011. That is my entire argument - he did none of it but left after 3 months. I am not arguing about what he did or did not do before March 2011. If he had not signed the contract in March 2011 I would accept your argument.
kchorn, I don't disagree with your first sentence but, of course, I never said that those who make lots of money don't want more. In fact, I specifically said that it is likely that Mackay, a very rich man, wants more money. I merely expressed doubt that he needs it. You're right that nowadays one needs a lot of money to have security for life (the crying emoticon is apt, particularly in light of rampant inflation and austerity measures across the board) but I'm not swallowing the idea that footballers, particularly those like Mackay who have played and managed in the top divisions for over a decade, need to jump from £250k p.a. to £400k in order to look after their children. Those on that sort of money would have to be incredibly profligate and/or spectacularly badly advised to need (rather than simply want) more money. I agree too with your point about ambition. It is plausible that Mackay left us because Cardiff is a better prospect going forward, rather than simply for the money. I think I've said elsewhere that I wouldn't blame him for wanting to leave; I'm not at all surprised that he has. However, I am in no doubt that he went behind our backs, presumably through his agent, in speaking to Cardiff. As such, I don't feel any affection towards him: just an ex-player and manager in my eyes. As you say, onwards and upwards. Without Mackay.
norway, I am pragmatic enough to realise that Mackay wasn't going to stay with us for the long haul. As soon as Cardiff's interest was made public, I knew he was going: indeed, on another thread I said that there aren't many poor bookies, as I placed more emphasis on his being made odds-on favourite than others seemed to. There's got to be a better chance of him going up with Cardiff than with us. Then again, I thought the same when Rodgers went to Reading and he ended up sacked when they were lower than us in the table. I don't feel the same enmity towards Mackay as I did Rodgers, but if the same fate befell Mackay I wouldn't shed a tear. Incidentally, it would surprise me if he took them up. In his time with us, I thought the team was mentally fragile: too many prolonged runs of bad form, copious late goals and a very poor record when the opposition scored first. Of course, our expectations were low (staying solvent and in the division being regarded as an achievement) but should Cardiff pick up one win in ten, say, the fans might not be so understanding. Ask Dave Jones.
Ignorant human nature seeks more money, when you get to it seek happiness, we're conditioned by governments into capitalist targets but you only need to look at the charity efforts of the super rich to see where people should really focus.
Roger, we bid for Taylor. Boro mucked us about and never got back to us; the new manager there also started to play and wanted to keep him. As for Mutch, he was out of contract this Summer and Brum send they would not loan him back until he signed a new one. In that period he made the first team. So to say that Malky had his side broken up for financial reasons is rubbish.
Bradleysdad--not rubbish. We could not afford to keep either of them, nor spend to replace them, and there was no depth in the squad to replace them either. Hence the inferior Drinkwater and playing Doyley out of position. We would not have relied on these players in those positions if we had had money to spend at that time. Leornardo--yes I understand your main point, even sympathise with it, in principle. In my world too a contract should mean a contract, and the parties should stand by it. But the business culture in football is not the same as the business culture everywhere else, and the function of a contract is not always to tie a person down for a set period. When you saw that Malky had been given a new three year contract, you thought it meant he would be staying for three years. When I saw it, I thought it signaled that he would be leaving sooner rather than later. I thought it was a good move by the club to protect Malky from cheap dismissal by the new owner (just about to take over at the time--unknown quantity) and to ensure that the club got good compensation if he was poached in the summer. Good business by the club (Winter I assume) not bad conduct by Malky.
How can that be true? After Taylor and Mutch left we brought in Drinkwater, Townsend and Weimann? I would reckon those 3 are on similar wages if not more than the 2 that left. I really don't understand your reasoning...
Leonardo, i think you are missing a couple of key things in the difference between Brendan and Malky. I too am in the camp where MM has done little wrong. Although Rogers didn't have much money to spend either he had a much better squad in his 6 months in terms of experience and quality than Malky ever had with players such as Williamson, Smith, McAnuff, Priskin. While Brendan didn't spend much he had those four quality championship players that Malky never had and he had to start again. I also think his win ratio was very good considering the size and experience of the squad who played those game . It was not helped by the fact our small squad suffered from the wear and tear or playing every week towards the end of both his seasons in charge. Had we had a bit more money for 3/4 more players i don't think we would have ended either season slowly!
Not getting Taylor and Mutch back was not our choice! We tried to get both back but their parent clubs didn't allow it. Taylor because Boro had a new manager ad started getting first team football, Mutch because Brum didn't allow him to go back until he signed a new contract, and once he did, he was playing for the first team! Both completely out of Watford's control and nothing to do with money - didn't we actually offer an amount to BUY Taylor??? Because of this, maybe we hadn't planned who to bring in next... Drinkwater was a suggestion from Fergie to Malky, so of course you will take his word for it! Townsend looks an ok player, just too big for his boots at the moment, and Weimann wasn't replacing anyone who had left the squad, just more cover!
