Lamouchi and the future

[Oldsparkey]

I can understand the relief of staying up being extolled as an "achievement" by Lamouchi given the perilous position we'd got ourselves into, but how much comfort should we take from that? To be fair it's all we could have hoped for when he came in, but in reality his brief tenure has been a real mixed bag - his decision to keep Sawyers on for so long and Ojo on the pitch for the entire game yesterday was baffling.

I don't travel away these days but witnessed every minute of his CCS fixtures and that was the last one of the season yesterday - thank God. I'm struggling to find a high point let alone comfort. Beating Bristol City was probably the best moment but that in itself was more about who they are rather than how we played. Although yesterday was easily the pits, the previous games against Sunderland and Stoke were dire performances.

Giving the SL/SB regime a contract for next season and maybe beyond based upon our survival is the easy route just because "he's already here" like Morison and Hudson were at the time, but I fear we'll be also rans at best next season at the very best. It's the option that Tan will probably chose if only on the basis that it would be difficult to attract anyone better with the current embargo and legal issues hanging over the club.

On the evidence of Lamouchi's 3 months here and historically with Forest before, I'd throw sentiment out of the window. I love Bamba for his personality but he's an enthusiastic amateur. Lamouchi doesn't inspire me at all. I was dubious when he came in and said so on here at the time. Nice enough guy but no cigar.

 

[remote]

I can understand the relief of staying up being extolled as an "achievement" by Lamouchi given the perilous position we'd got ourselves into, but how much comfort should we take from that? To be fair it's all we could have hoped for when he came in, but in reality his brief tenure has been a real mixed bag - his decision to keep Sawyers on for so long and Ojo on the pitch for the entire game yesterday was baffling.

I don't travel away these days but witnessed every minute of his CCS fixtures and that was the last one of the season yesterday - thank God. I'm struggling to find a high point let alone comfort. Beating Bristol City was probably the best moment but that in itself was more about who they are rather than how we played. Although yesterday was easily the pits, the previous games against Sunderland and Stoke were dire performances.

Giving the SL/SB regime a contract for next season and maybe beyond based upon our survival is the easy route just because "he's already here" like Morrison and Hudson were at the time, but I fear we'll be also rans at best next season at the very best. It's the option that Tan will probably chose if only on the basis that it would be difficult to attract anyone better with the current embargo and legal issues hanging over the club.

On the evidence of Lamouchi's 3 months here and historically with Forest before, I'd throw sentiment out of the window. I love Bamba for his personality but he's an enthusiastic amateur. Lamouchi doesn't inspire me at all. I was dubious when he came in and said so on here at the time. Nice enough guy but no cigar.

I dont think much will change whoever the manager is, until we sort the more fundamental issue of club direction and football nous at executive management level.
While we continue to lurch from playing style to playing style, every manager we fetch in will want 10 new signings.
Minor variations in style are one thing, U-turns a couple times a season something totally different.
I wonder if we'd have been in any worse a position by sticking with Morison.

Root and branches review needed at the club.
Rolling 5 year plan covering playing style, recruitment, academy and pathway, etc.
Big job, not for amateurs.
Revolution now, then ongoing evolution.
NOT revolution 3 times a season.

Some lessons could be learned from our noisy neighbours in a few areas.

 

[irishbluebird]

I can understand the relief of staying up being extolled as an "achievement" by Lamouchi given the perilous position we'd got ourselves into, but how much comfort should we take from that? To be fair it's all we could have hoped for when he came in, but in reality his brief tenure has been a real mixed bag - his decision to keep Sawyers on for so long and Ojo on the pitch for the entire game yesterday was baffling.

I don't travel away these days but witnessed every minute of his CCS fixtures and that was the last one of the season yesterday - thank God. I'm struggling to find a high point let alone comfort. Beating Bristol City was probably the best moment but that in itself was more about who they are rather than how we played. Although yesterday was easily the pits, the previous games against Sunderland and Stoke were dire performances.

Giving the SL/SB regime a contract for next season and maybe beyond based upon our survival is the easy route just because "he's already here" like Morison and Hudson were at the time, but I fear we'll be also rans at best next season at the very best. It's the option that Tan will probably chose if only on the basis that it would be difficult to attract anyone better with the current embargo and legal issues hanging over the club.

On the evidence of Lamouchi's 3 months here and historically with Forest before, I'd throw sentiment out of the window. I love Bamba for his personality but he's an enthusiastic amateur. Lamouchi doesn't inspire me at all. I was dubious when he came in and said so on here at the time. Nice enough guy but no cigar.

Great post Sparkey.

We need to remember that Lamouchi inherited this squad. I think he needs a chance to prove what he can do with his own signings so let’s give him some time. Who knows he could turn it right round.

However that depends on what funds are available and knowing how awful our board are I wouldn’t blame him for walking away if he doesn’t get proper backing.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Great post Sparkey.

We need to remember that Lamouchi inherited this squad. I think he needs a chance to prove what he can do with his own signings so let’s give him some time. Who knows he could turn it right round.

However that depends on what funds are available and knowing how awful our board are I wouldn’t blame him for walking away if he doesn’t get proper backing.

The initial way out of this footballing impasse is for Tan to accept the Sala contractual situation and reach a settlement for the sake of the future of this club rather than pursue his legal crusade which is going to drag it down. This should allow the club to operate on a level playing field with regards to choice of managers and players.

Notwithstanding the playing side, it would also make the club more attractive to potential investors/owners such as the previously mentioned David Sullivan who is definitely interestd in acquiring the club when he decamps from West Ham - that is likely to be during this summer.

 

[clingo]

Agree with just about everything posted on this thread. Unfortunately, it seems to be exactly the same discussion that we had at the end of last season and likely to have at the end of next.
It's not rocket science to see that we need real football people at the helm. People that can see past the personalities of our managers and focus on getting someone that is effective in improving the club. I'm not sure that's going to happen any time soon. Anything else I've said and nauseum in the past.
So I fear for the foreseeable future, we are stuck supporting our club in spite of the owner and board. Not an inspiring philosophy I know but it's all we have.
Time also to get CCS bouncing and hostile. At the end of the day, that's all the fans can control. I appreciate that's a talk order when there's so little to fire the fans up
So, that's me going round in circles again.

In the meantime
Bloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobirds

 

[Masky]

Agree with just about everything posted on this thread. Unfortunately, it seems to be exactly the same discussion that we had at the end of last season and likely to have at the end of next.
It's not rocket science to see that we need real football people at the helm. People that can see past the personalities of our managers and focus on getting someone that is effective in improving the club. I'm not sure that's going to happen any time soon. Anything else I've said and nauseum in the past.
So I fear for the foreseeable future, we are stuck supporting our club in spite of the owner and board. Not an inspiring philosophy I know but it's all we have.
Time also to get CCS bouncing and hostile. At the end of the day, that's all the fans can control. I appreciate that's a talk order when there's so little to fire the fans up
So, that's me going round in circles again.

In the meantime
Bloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobirds

Bloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobirds? Always trying to use long words Clingy…give the guy a one year contract, keep him hungry! No offence intended!

 

[ninian opinion]

Yesterday with hindsight was always going to be a game too far perhaps. Playing Thursday night with all that emotion and relief after it was always going to make yesterday against an opposition hungrier for the points difficult plus the Warnock factor.

But to play so meekly and poorly was not expected especially as it was the last home game with a half decent crowd and so was unacceptable, and disappointing. A real wasted opportunity to persuade some of the more casual supporters to get a season ticket.

So onto OS’ thought provoking topic.

The answer I suppose lies in how the clubs’ owners want to take on next seasons challenge. Last summer they allowed Morison to completely revamp the squad but by and large his incoming players came up short. Central midfield players with pace and creativity and proven strikers were not brought in. Injuries aside the squad lacked quality throughout.

If the current manager is as is likely given a contract he’ll struggle with what’s left of the squad after the loanees, and the out of contract players depart and loanees return.

He’ll surely want to be able to recruit properly but unless the owners sort out the transfer/Sala issues the he’ll be seriously handicapped.

We all know sadly we’ve had 2 cracks at the PL and failed each time to establish PL status and the owners must look enviously at the likes of BGA, Brentford, AFCB etc and how they’ve grown those clubs to fit the modern ethos of football.

Sadly I cannot see our owners having the football nous, enthusiasm or ability to replicate those clubs achievements.

So unless I’m wrong on that, whoever is our manager I think we’re in for more pain and misery next season.

ps What are the odds on Dean Whitehead to be appointed our new interim manager sometime during the season?

 

[Oldsparkey]

Doesn't appear to be any ongoing committment by either Lamouchi nor the club beyond the final game - it was all dependant upon which division we'd be in next season from both points of view.

If that's the case, the club would obviously talk to Lamouchi about a further contract, but as he is factually out of work, I'd imagine other prospective managers could apply for what is essentially a vacant position?

Will the club do further due diligence on whoever springs out of the woodwork or will they take the easy route and just reappoint?

 

[remote]

Doesn't appear to be any ongoing committment by either Lamouchi nor the club beyond the final game - it was all dependant upon which division we'd be in next season from both points of view.

If that's the case, the club would obviously talk to Lamouchi about a further contract, but as he is factually out of work, I'd imagine other prospective managers could apply for what is essentially a vacant position?

Will the club do further due diligence on whoever springs out of the woodwork or will they take the easy route and just reappoint?

Without the buffer of football nous between the manager and Tan its a difficult one.
An older head may be needed to manage upward. Then you risk being lumbered with an older style of football. A young, hungry, progressive manager could get derailed by the board.
We've said ot before, and it is becoming increasingly evident, that a director of football is essential to progress, then we can select a suitable manager.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

All good points guys and I think most of us realise a DoF is the way forward with Lamouchi or someone else.

History shows that our recent managers and "transfer committee" have made a dogs ear of mist permanent signings. While at the same time loan players have provided some success - Giles, Drameh, Doyle, Hugill, Phil O'Gene, Kipre and Kaba being good examples.

I don't know who drives these type of signings but, whoever it is, they have a much better success rate than the majority of permanent signings. Should they be given a wider remit?

If a deal is agreed to keep Lamouchi will he be happy to work with a DoF or will he want a say for new players? A good relationship between any manager, a DoF - and the board, regardless of their shortcomings, is essential.

In addition a DoF worth his salt will not be cheap. Will VT be happy to fund this? Also does the umbungo impact on off field signings? I guess not as we got Lamouchi and Sol while the umbongo was in place.

 

[remote]

All good points guys and I think most of us realise a DoF is the way forward with Lamouchi or someone else.

History shows that our recent managers and "transfer committee" have made a dogs ear of mist permanent signings. While at the same time loan players have provided some success - Giles, Drameh, Doyle, Hugill, Phil O'Gene, Kipre and Kaba being good examples.

I don't know who drives these type of signings but, whoever it is, they have a much better success rate than the majority of permanent signings. Should they be given a wider remit?

If a deal is agreed to keep Lamouchi will he be happy to work with a DoF or will he want a say for new players? A good relationship between any manager, a DoF - and the board, regardless of their shortcomings, is essential.

In addition a DoF worth his salt will not be cheap. Will VT be happy to fund this? Also does the umbungo impact on off field signings? I guess not as we got Lamouchi and Sol while the umbongo was in place.

Bin off Choo or Dalman to pay for a DoF.

 

[clingo]

I agree totally with the idea we need a DoF and with remote's idea of how to fund it. The trouble is that I doubt Tan will see the sense in it. I honestly don't think he'll tolerate anyone who in any way stands up to him or even disagrees with him. I'm pretty certain that's why Dave Jones went so quickly and thus the die was cast. If course, Tan saved the club and he's never shy of reminding us of it.
I don't believe that people can't change, but when pride and power are in the mix, it's that much more unlikely. Still, he eventually saw the error of his ways regarding Redshirtgate, so you never know he might start to realise that he needs real footballing brains to move the club forward and protect his investment. Not holding my breath though.
We'll still be loyal regardless.
Bloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobirds

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

Congratulations on staying up boys - and I’m flattered that we get a mention in your ‘best moment of the season’ - your ‘cup final’ moment eh, Sparkey??.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

Congratulations on staying up boys - and I’m flattered that we get a mention in your ‘best moment of the season’ - your ‘cup final’ moment.

In fairness BCFC any win for us this season was a cup final moment. We can, at least, renew hostili...... er, emm, rivalries next season.

 

[clingo]

Congratulations on staying up boys - and I’m flattered that we get a mention in your ‘best moment of the season’ - your ‘cup final’ moment eh, Sparkey??.

And so you should feel flattered! We don't go dishing out compliments like that to ALL our victims at CCS this season.

 

[remote]

And so you should feel flattered! We don't go dishing out compliments like that to ALL our victims at CCS this season.

Wouldnt take long though.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Now it's all over, our final table position one place off the trap door three reflects reality at the club - the whole situation from top to bottom is abysmal. In all honesty, after 3 months with Lamouchi at the helm, our performances are no better. In fact some (all?) of our home games whilst in his charge have been very poor with the likes of the Sunderland and Huddersfield games downright atrocious. I've said it before and I'll say it again - for all his plausibility, Lamouchi doesn't inspire me at all.

Priority was obviously to stay up and the April wins at Blackpool, Watford and Rotherham, whilst never convincing, have saved our skins along with Readings 6 point deduction. Having said that, our effort in the "free hit" Burnley game yesterday was embarrassing and we got what we deserved - nothing. Not that many were expecting anything from it, but the manner of it and the shocking disjointed display from those on the pitch and on the lack of control from the touchline doesn't bode well for next season.

What to do about it? It all boils down to Tan. Sticking with the recent approach of convenient manager appointments, pursuing protracted legal actions with their negative footballing implications, and combining all that with local governance by unsuitable decision makers is killing this club. I fear more of the same next season unless Tan wakes up, or sells up.

 

[william5551]

Once again our management are dragging their bloody feet about signing our manager,why such a big club like Cardiff have inept owner and management beggers belief.

 

[ninian opinion]

It doesn’t though beggar belief as we’ve known this since day one.

 

[ninian opinion]

Hard to state anything positive - so much needs to be done in so many aspects (on & off the field) in a short space of time to put the club on a footing to compete next season. I’m not holding my breath but will be renewing in a false sense of optimism or some may say, masochism.