Fair comment. I was referring to the military definition (more or less nuclear, biological or chemical weapons). Nevertheless you do get several instances of gun attacks where more people were killed than in the Boston bombings (no disrespect intended), and since then we've had the Texas fertilizer plant explosion and the tornado, both of which accounted for far more victims who lost there life before their time. Yet we can't stop talking about terrorists - which is exactly what they want I think (sorry that was me that did it that time!)
Kyle Naughton - Fail does it yet again?
- Thread starter Lotak
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Fair comment. I was referring to the military definition (more or less nuclear, biological or chemical weapons). Nevertheless you do get several instances of gun attacks where more people were killed than in the Boston bombings (no disrespect intended), and since then we've had the Texas fertilizer plant explosion and the tornado, both of which accounted for far more victims who lost there life before their time. Yet we can't stop talking about terrorists - which is exactly what they want I think (sorry that was me that did it that time!)
The reason terrorists blew up the WTC was to make the US overreact and hurt its own standing in the Muslim world, while helping the status of the terrorists. And of course we took the bait, hook, line and sinker like the ****ing total ****ing suckers we are. I don't know how many Americans opposed the Afghan war, but my guess would be in the 10 - 20 % range.
I always think people will be able to tell when I'm joking, however often they don't...
Gun deaths clearly correlate with ease of access to a lethal weapon, and rate of fire of that weapon. So the easier it is to get a gun, and the higher the rate of fire of that gun, the more gun deaths you will tend to have. Permitting Americans access to lethal weapons is kind of like leaving hand grenades lying around in the chimp cage. The more you leave around, the more chimps will blow sky high. Note that you never see a dozen people killed in one place at one time by fists, or even knives or baseball bats.
I only meant to point out that there is another factor gun deaths correlate with, which is US citizenship. Guns rest peacefully in every home in Switzerland without being used to kill other Swiss.
The fact that there are many Americans who believe you shouldn't restrict the rate of fire, even by limiting the size of magazine clips, is laughable. Hey, we may be murderous, but we are really dumb.
Sorry chirpy but your comment about young men almost exclusively from the same backgrounds as the footballers trying to get guns and kill each other is simply not true...it is a myth perpetrated by papers like the mail.
In 2009 a freedom of information request to the met police showed that just under 60% of shooting crimes in london are suspected of being committed by non white people...this is not a conviction rate but an arrest rate so the actual figure will be a bit lower.
As london has the biggest section of non white people in the rest of the country the figures is much lower therefore across the country most gun crime is committed by white men.
Sorry to be anal but it is a particular bug bear of mine...if black men commit violence to other black men we get hundreds of articles about black on black violence and how the black community needs to sort itself out...yet when white men hurt other white men their race is irrelevant and they are simply called thugs.
As for rio...3 weeks after new labour recruited him for its street crime campaign against gun violence he celebrated scoring a goal by....pretending to fire a rocket launcher!
Not really interested in the slant the Daily Mail gives this issue. Or who actually commits the crimes.
It is a fact that young black men are statistically more likely to be the victim of gun/knife crime than any other group. If you think think this is NOT a problem (especially in London) you are either misinformed or burying your head in the sand. If you drive around the capital, (like I do,) especially at night, the ever-present crime scene tape is hardly ever found in Hampstead or Kensington or the like. No, it is in Peckham and Harringey and Hackney, practically every day. Find enclosed the ONS figures on violent crime victims for 2011-2012.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...-and-sexual-offences-2011-12.html#tab-Victims
Yes of course, the others were accidents / act of nature, but my point is that people lost loved ones, and people's lives were ended earlier than they should have been. But we make terrorism a special case and completely go over the top with reacting, normally just after saying 'they won't change our way of life' or 'they're just jealous of our freedom' (and then we pass laws changing our way of life and taking away that bit more of our freedom). It's almost as if the government is waiting for an excuse to trot out the latest restrictions, i.e. saying recently that if the internet was more restricted then Lee Rigby wouldn't have been hacked to death. Firstly I'm sure that isn't true, but secondly we need to be grown up about freedom, we have to accept that if we like our generally free way of life then we have to compromise over how much we restrict it and, yes, that may mean having to accept that there is some terrorism you can't actually stop. I'm afraid that regardless of what laws are passed, terrorism will still happen, and as long as it does some people will simply say it's because there aren't enough restrictions. And before you know it we won't have any freedom at all! Sorry to hijack this thread, it's something I feel very strongly about. Not in a gun toting US fundamentalist way, but in a nice traditional British way - i.e. you should be able to do and say what you like until it impacts on others.
Libertarian views on freedom are simple and consistent. That's why I support them, even on issues like gun control. "Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither."
Libertarian views on economics are whacko, though.
Libertarian views on economics are whacko, though.
Chirpy ... I disagreed with your statement that
"The issue is young men are acquiring guns and killing each other. They are almost exclusively from the community these young footballers come from."
You said guns originally...the original article was about guns....yet now you are referring to knives and guns...they are not the same
...and you used the term "They are almost exclusively from these communities"...all I was saying is that this is not the case. I am aware of life in London ... I have always lived here and am aware of what life is like here...
I agree that young men make up the vast majority of victims of knife and gun crime...young black men feature very heavily in the victim and perpetrator categories and in London the majority of those arrested are non white...60% in the 2011/2012 met stats (as i originally posted) but when the conviction rate is considered the figure drops and when the whole country is taken into account it drops still further...therefore your statement that "They are almost exclusively from the community these young footballers come from." is simply not right...I meant no offence as I am aware you didn't mean any in your origin post so to accuse me of "burying my head in the sand" is a bit OTT in my opinion.
Violence by men is a massive problem..I work in a primary school and work a lot with boys around anger management cos many are incapable of dealing with conflict without resorting to violence and insults even at a very young age as there adults at home are not teaching them...they are playing violent computer games and watching violent programmes which they are too young to understand...they are also being subjected to neglect and violence at home...the idea that most young men are armed with a knife is a bit chicken and egg as this fear is causing more to become armed as they believe everyone else is...these are some of the issues behind knife and gun violence and it is my belief that it is a mistake to believe it is mainly a problem of young black/non white men as the underlying causes won't be dealt with and the problem will continue with little being done by those in power
I agree with what you say, only to add though that the difference between Peckham and Haringey on one hand and Hampstead and Kensington on the other is poverty, not just race. That is what leads to violence.
Drugs is what the violence is about,people using crack,and gang wars between the suppliers,not just poverty